'Caste Census Will Divide People'

'They are going to create so many nations within one nation.'
'If you do this exercise without a clear vision, it will have far reaching repercussions. It will end up in disaster and that will be dangerous.'

Is a caste census really necessary to provide social justice to so many Indians who have been denied opportunities to come up in life?

Is it advisable to bring caste back into our daily lives with more vigour even though caste has been a reality in India?

Dr K Krishnasamy, founder-president of the Dalit party, Puthiya Thamilagam, unlike many other politicians, is not in favour of a caste census.

"If they are not clear about what they are going to do with the data, they are merely going to divide the people on caste lines. What they have done through hidden means will be done openly, after this," Dr Krishnasamy tells Rediff's Shobha Warrier.

While almost all political parties are for a caste census, you said, it was a regressive step. Why?

After Independence, in the last 75 years, all the political parties -- both national and regional -- have been proclaiming that they have eradicated caste even at the grassroot level.

All of them say that there is no religion or caste or regional feelings in society now.

If they have eradicated caste from society, why do you want to conduct a caste-based census now?

But they say it is necessary to have a caste-based census whether we have eradicated caste from society or not.

Till now, have all these political parties not been asking people to shed their caste and adopt only their identity as Indians?

If anyone has forgotten their caste in the last 75 years, these political parties want them to adopt their caste identity now.

The question is, what have they been doing all these years? They have to admit that they failed in their duty to wipe caste from society.

With this demand, all their claims of eradicating caste from society have turned out to be bogus.

My question to them is, why do you want to go back and start from the scratch as far as caste identity is concerned?

You feel this is a regressive step?

Yes. Till now, you wanted people to be united under their national identity.

All these political leaders claimed that their political parties are above caste identity and caste feelings.

Suddenly, caste identity has become an identity even above your national identity. Why?

When we spoke about how caste affected the lives of many Dalits, the problems they faced because of caste discrimination, these leaders had told us that we should not compartmentalise problems of people as caste problems, and that we should rise above caste to create a national identity.

Now, the same political parties who wanted everyone to ditch their caste identity 75 years ago, have taken a U-turn to be the saviours of caste!

This shows the true face of all the political parties in India; that they were never concerned about the genuine problems of people.

Though they projected themselves as broadminded, the truth is, they are all narrow minded.

This issue has exposed them and their true face.

Do you feel the new posture is to garner votes?

Is it not true that they were not true to the people in the last 75 years?

Were they not preaching one ideology and practising another?

I would say, their original colour has come out now.

75 years ago, did you not say that talking about caste was retrogressive?

Did you not say that caste divided people and not united them?

The truth is, a caste-based census will divide people. It will also divide the nation in future.

Unfortunately, the political parties are not true to anybody.

I want to ask, what necessitated them to talk about a caste census now.

Okay, a caste based census is done. After that, what are they going to give the people?

My questions are, are you going to give proportional share everywhere, from the bureaucracy to the political sphere to employment to education, to each caste?

Are you going to share the resources of the nation proportionately?

Are you going to divide the land and distribute it proportionally as land is the most important aspect?

If your aim is to create an egalitarian society, you must spell out your plan of action.

Even the government has not mentioned when and what they are going to do with the caste census....

Nobody knows when they are going to do the caste census.

Nobody knows what they are going to do with the caste census data.

Nobody knows how they are going to use the data.

Every state is different. You just cannot have one formula for the entire country.

For example, a community that exists in Tirunelveli does not exist in Coimbatore.

It is not going to be easy as there are so many varied issues pertaining to every region.

If they are not clear about what they are going to do with the data, they are merely going to divide the people on caste lines.

What they have done through hidden means will be done openly, after this.

The result of this exercise will be, they are going to create so many nations within one nation.

Those who support a caste census say that even among the most backward or other backward castes or scheduled castes, only a small percentage of the population is enjoying the benefits, and the majority are left behind...

That is because, nothing is done properly or scientifically.

There is no vision behind the enumeration that has already been done for the scheduled castes.

Actions are so slow that a generation passes between collecting data and taking some action.

That's why you have to have a vision before collecting data.

That's why it is important to spell out what you are going to do after the caste census.

If you don't have a clear or progressive vision, what you do will become regressive.

Then, you are going to create more division and clashes in society.

Is it not like opening the Pandora's box?

Exactly. If you do this exercise without a clear vision, it will have far reaching repercussions. It will end up in disaster and that will be dangerous.

Instead of social justice, you will do injustice to society.

Instead of going forward, you will go backwards.

That's why I call the caste census retrogressive.

But then how will you be able to bring those who are left behind to a higher level without proper data?

Through reservation alone, you cannot raise all the communities in India to a certain level.

There has to be other means too.

The starting point has to be land. Is the government ready to divide land proportionately?

Is the government ready to share the resources of the nation equally?

This will only result in a few dominant communities to dominate the society, once again.

It will also result in a nation of many communities.

IMAGE: Dr K Krishnasamy with AIADMK General Secretary Edappadi K Palaniswami. Photograph: Kind courtesy Dr Krishnasamy

You spoke of equally dividing the resources. The reality is, 1% of the population owns 40% of the nation's resources.

This is the result of lifting land reforms. You have also lifted urban land reforms.

You gave thousands of acres of land to run airports, educational institutions, etc. Now, one company, or one individual can own thousands of acres of land and run any number of institutions.

That is why society has become so unequal.

That is also why I ask the BJP or the Congress or the DMK to spell what they are going to do with the data.

Even before the enumeration, the parties will have to disclose what their objective is behind the caste count, how they are going to use it and above all, how they are going to create an inclusive society.

If the agenda behind such an exercise is not clear, it will only be a retrogressive step.

Feature Presentation: Aslam Hunani/Rediff.com