British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who is on a state visit to Pakistan and Afghanistan, has ruled out any intervention in the Kashmir dispute.
Blair created a huge controversy recently, when he told an interview to Arab television channel Al Jazeera that the Iraq war had been a disaster.
In an exclusive interview to Hamid Mir in Islamabad, Blair speaks about Pakistan's role in the war on terror and what he thinks is the way ahead in Afghanistan, Iraq and the Middle East.
What is your basic objective of visiting Pakistan?
I am here to try and cement the relationship between Britain and Pakistan and to support Pakistan in health, education and development and help in the growth of the Pakistan economy. I am here to symbolise the change in the relationship. A few years back I couldn't think of coming here.
President Pervez Musharaf has pardoned the death sentence on British citizen Mirza Tahir. Are you against death penalty on principle?
We are against the death penalty and that is the position of the European Union and Britain. We have abolished it in the UK but this is a different issue. We were pleased that Pakistan has acted.
What do you think about the death penalty for deposed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein? Do you think his hanging will help to stabilise the situation in Iraq?
It is the decision that Iraqi authorities will take but as I said earlier, we are against the death penalty in whatever context.
You have many big stakes in Afghanistan. Why do you think the situation in Afghanistan is not stabilising?
There are many parts of Afghanistan which are stabilising. There are many changes in the country in terms of the economy. In terms of democracy there are presidential elections and girls are allowed to go to schools. Many schools have started to rebuild and there are new health centres. So there is a lot of change but of course there are the Taliban and extremist groups. They will fight hard because they used to have power which they don't have now. We should stay to help the Afghans so that they can have their own security in place to work out their future and elect their president.
How long are the British forces going to stay in Afghanistan? According to some reports they are going to stay for 10 years. Is it correct?
None of these reports are correct. In the end we stay as long as the government wants us to stay and we have a United Nations resolution which backs our presence there. The purpose is not to stay there forever. There is no time limit. The Afghans want us to stay there to back their government in taking control of the country so that people can enjoy proper human rights and democracy.
Even five years after the 9/11 terror attacks, the masterminds Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar are still at large. Why do you think it is so?
I know there have been many attempts to seek them out. But I think what is more important is that we stay with the people in Afghanistan and help them in what they want, what they voted for. The United Nations has supervised the democratic process and that is the reason why British forces are in southern part of Afghanistan and the forces of 25-30 countries are helping the Afghan government.
Of course we continue to seek out Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar. But the important thing is to support the reconstruction, political development and economy and particularly control this situation in the southern part where the Taliban are fighting back.
A top British general said this is the time to pull out from Iraq. Do you have an exit strategy in Iraq?
The strategy we have is what the general said. It is different from Afghanistan. The Iraqi government wanted us there but Iraqi capabilities are growing the whole time. British forces looked after four provinces in Iraq, two of them have already been handed back to the Iraqis. We are conducting operations in Basra (southern Iraq) at the moment which will help give control to the Iraqi authorities later. Again our need to be there is diminishing. But the purpose both in Afghanistan and Iraq is to stay there with the support of their governments and the United Nations as long as necessary.
Both Afghanistan and Iraq do not have an independent judiciary and free press. So how will you have democracy without these?
The press is free in Afghanistan and Iraq. With respect to the judiciary, that's part of the capacity we have to build in these countries. But let us be clear that when the Taliban were in charge of Afghanistan and Saddam Hussein was in charge of Iraq, you did not have any free press nor democratic rights.
You met many Pakistani scholars during your visit, you must have exchanged your views with them. Most of them think that this war against terror is a war against Islam and we are heading towards a clash of civilizations. What are your impressions?
We are not heading towards a clash of civilizations. A majority of Muslims believe in democracy, and a tolerance for different faiths living together. One of the things we are exploring with these people is how to remove some misconceptions regarding the war against terror. We are in an alliance of civilization against people of extremism, who use terrorism to get their way.
What is your position on the veil controversy in the UK these days?
I have talked about it before because in the end people go for their personal choices. I think in broad terms when we see integration of faiths I also see integration of societies so that people come together. The controversy over the veil started when people felt that there was separateness. There are differences on it within the Muslim community as well as outside the Muslim community.
US General John Abizaid has said Islamic militancy could lead to World War III. Do you agree with that?
I think extremism linked to Islam is giving a wrong view because it is a peaceful religion. But this extremism is around in many countries including Britain, Pakistan and in many European countries. I think all people who believe in moderation and tolerance need to come together and beat it. The cliché about us being the global world is becoming true but terrorism can be a very dangerous thing. It sets people apart and pulls people of different faiths against each other. It casts a shadow on the abilities of people to work together and I think the general is right.
Today Britain and Pakistan are working together to beat it. The work Pakistan has done in all these years is very important.
Can we combat Islamic militancy without resolving the problem in the Middle East. Do you have any solution regarding resolution of the Middle East problem?
I certainly have the resolution -- we should have a two state resolution. The Palestinian people should have their own stable state. The advantage is that we know what we want to achieve but the problem is how to get it. The important thing is to patiently revitalise the peace process which is very important and keep it going. Palestine does not justify extremism or terrorism but it is the one source to reach across that spectrum. One more thing to make progress is not to put Israel at risk. Now Palestinians live in miserable conditions without any hope for future -- we have to give them this hope.
How do you deal with Iran and Syria?
We offer them a strategic choice. My remarks are misinterpreted both with regard to Iran and Syria. One day I am quoted as saying take military action and next day I am saying we are partners for peace. What I am saying is we should offer a vision to the whole region about making progress for Palestine and making sure that the democratic government in Lebanon is secure and support movements for democracy in the region.
There is a strategic choice for Iran and Syria that if you want to work with us then be a part of that. On the other hand if you support terrorism in Lebanon, Iraq and Syria then people will consider you part of the problem not the part of the solution.
Do you support the idea to engage Hamas and Hezbollah in a dialogue?
I have taken through the Northern Ireland peace process. I have talked to those people who previous governments did not think to talk. It's not a question of dialogue but the only way to make progress is if we solve problems through politics. Now there is no difficulty if for example Hamas became part of national unity and if that national unity abided by United Nations principles, of course we should talk to them.
There is less home-grown terrorism in the US. All the 9/11 attackers came from outside but there is lot of home-grown terrorism in teh UK? What is the reason for that?
I think this ideology of extremism is exported all around the world. The UK is not the only country with home-grown terrorism, there are other countries in Europe which have the same problems. The answer is to create strong support for moderate and tolerant principles within the community to root out extremism and mobilise moderate majorities among Muslims from the UK and Pakistan to defeat this thing. You have got to win the minds and hearts of the people as well to make them secure and that is what I think we are doing now. The Pakistani community and its leaders in the UK are playing a part in it.
Many people in Pakistan feel that Britain has the moral responsibility to do something about the Kashmir dispute because it is the unfinished agenda of 1947. Do you think a Belfast kind of resolution is possible in Kashmir?
I have tried to do anything as I can to help this situation in the past. In the end it is going to be resolved by India and Pakistan. But there are hopeful signs. If you have been taking this interview five years back then the first question would be Kashmir but not now. I hope both leaders of India and Pakistan will resolve it. India and Pakistan are two important countries in the region and in few years will be powerful countries as well. I ask them to resolve this issue, then concentrate on the things which will determine your future like economic development and regional security. These are two proud countries and I think it's with the leadership of the two countries to deal with this issue. This issue is very important for both countries. We can't interfere but we should help in a partnership between India and Pakistan.
