'That refresh programme -- because they are big aircraft and we cannot ground them all at the same time -- will last well into 2027.'
This interview was conducted before the tragic crash involving Air India flight AI 171 on Thursday, June 12, 2025.
"Our effort at Air India is to bring more economic benefit to Indian soil, not just for us, but for Indian business, Indian society, Indian employment and Indian skills and development," Air India CEO and MD Campbell Wilson, tells Deepak Patel/Business Standard.
You had mentioned last year that Air India group, which has about 300 planes in its fleet, will have a fleet of about 400 by 2027. Is that assessment still on track or has anything changed?
It is generally on track. When Air India was privatised, the airline was itself operating around 70 aircraft.
Air India Express (Air India's low-cost airline subsidiary) had about 25 planes. So, in total, there were less than 100 planes at the time.
Today, the Air India group has about 305 planes. Obviously, from the 570 aircraft that we have ordered (since 2023 from Airbus and Boeing), a lot of deliveries are yet to come.
Whether or not we have 400 aircraft, plus or minus a couple, really depends on the pace of those deliveries -- that would be in the hands of Airbus and Boeing, not ours. But yes, it will be very much in that ballpark.
You have spoken quite strongly against granting more bilateral rights to certain locations (such as West Asian hubs). It's been a concern for many years.
How does Air India see the government's present stance on this matter?
What should the government keep in mind while deciding to increase the bilateral rights with any country?
India has entered into many liberal, and, in some cases, open-sky agreements with countries in North America, Australasia and Europe. And they are driven by equality of opportunity.
That is a key principle to bear in mind. There are large populations and traffic flows on both sides.
Competition is what should then drive the agenda. Where such a balance isn't there, there need to be other considerations.
What is the benefit that accrues to India?
I think the most important thing to bear in mind is aviation as a catalyst for economic and social development.
Every flight brings employment opportunities, not just directly but also indirectly.
The connectivity that aviation brings facilitates business across sectors.
It brings tourism, the people that travel through an airport, connecting through an airport, giving value to the local economy, even if they are not really setting foot on local soil.
That whole ecosystem needs to be fostered in India for India's benefit.
At present, when people are hubbing (travelling via hubs) through other places, most of the economic benefit is accruing to where the hub is located.
So, our effort at Air India is to bring more of that economic benefit to Indian soil, not just for us, but for Indian business, Indian society, Indian employment and Indian skills and development. That's the key thing to bear in mind.
So, does it make sense for the government to increase bilateral rights where there is substantial point-to-point traffic?
Yes, and I think the evidence shows that is the case.
You and IndiGo have placed significant aircraft orders. Do you think it is the right time for Airbus or Boeing to establish their final assembly line in India?
I think that's probably a question for them rather than us.
We would certainly welcome more OEM (original equipment manufacturer) presence in India, whether it is to facilitate the repair of components or even the manufacture of components -- more skills that are readily available.
The import process, and the taxation process of getting things into and out of India, add some time and cost which we would rather not incur.
So, the more operating base of aircraft is in India, the more case there is for people to domicile themselves in India.
That takes us back to my point about the spin-off benefits of having a strong aviation industry in India -- our size and scale are a trigger for these people to want to base themselves in India and enjoy the advantages of skilled labour, cost competitiveness, and the like.
Will modernisation of narrow-body aircraft fleet be completed by the end of this year?
Yes, more or less. We are about 68 per cent complete right now.
By the end of this year, minus a couple of planes, the upgrade should be complete.
The caveat is that we decided to extend the life of 13 narrow-body aircraft which were supposed to be retired; those planes' modernisation will spill over into next year.
The modernisation of wide-body aircraft has started. It is scheduled to be completed by 2027. Is that on track?
About 35 per cent of our wide-body fleet is currently what we will call 'modern' -- both the A350 aircraft that we took, the B777 planes that we took, and a couple of B777 aircraft we refreshed (upgraded).
Through the course of this year, we will continue with the refresh programme for the B777s, and we will commence the full refit of the B787s.
That refresh programme -- because they are big aircraft and we cannot ground them all at the same time for obvious reasons -- will last well into 2027.
The pacing is driven not only by the fact that we cannot ground everything at once, but also the supply and certification of seats, particularly first- and business-class seats.
Those (seat-supply issues) have proved more challenging to get completed than anyone had expected, including the manufacturers.
So, that upgrade programme is a little bit later than we would have liked.
Nonetheless, it is commencing in earnest.
The B777 upgrades are underway, and the first B787 will go for refit in July.
We expect the wide-body aircraft modernisation to be over sometime in 2027.
In March, you had mentioned that the aircraft supply is expected to remain constrained for the next 4 to 5 years. Has anything changed in recent months?
The supply chain is getting progressively better, but it is still slow.
If you look at Boeing's B737 or B787 production rate, there is progress -- on becoming healthier, and faster output.
One of the constraints was Spirit Aerosystems in the US, which manufactures components for both Boeing and Airbus.
This company was in the process of being carved into two, and there seems to be good progress on that front.
So, a lot of the things -- seat certification, programmes that were stuck in bottlenecks, not just for us but others too -- are now coming to fruition. Things are getting progressively better.
I'm more optimistic than I was, but I think the constraint will last for some time (three-four years) because it does take a long time to catch up.
Do you think Airbus or Boeing should now start developing or designing a new aircraft altogether or should they continue to focus on supply-chain issues first?
They certainly need to make sure that the aircraft they have currently committed to sell are being produced at the pace we all want, and they want.
But, as an industry, we must always be looking at the next step in technology, for many reasons -- sustainability, efficiency, safety, etc.
So, we would encourage continued research and development on what the next generation looks like.
Can you give an idea about the operational and financial impact of the Pakistan airspace closure?
The operational impact is public and obvious. It does cause longer flight times to Europe and North America -- relatively minor in the case of Europe, a little longer in the case of North America.
In some cases, it means we either cannot fly non-stop to a handful of destinations, which means we need to take a refuelling stop en route.
In some cases, it means we cannot take a completely full load of cargo and passengers, so it is operationally annoying and clearly has a financial implication. But that is what it is, and we adjust and continue moving forward.
Can you give us an idea on the average increase in the duration of affected flights? And how many flights have been impacted?
We are operating non-stop flights to all North American points we previously operated non-stop flights to, except Chicago, Toronto and Washington DC.
We have a San Francisco flight that is also doing an intermediate stop on occasion.
For the San Francisco flight, the intermediate stop is not always in both directions; it depends on wind conditions and other factors.
The rest of the flights are continuing to operate non-stop, albeit with a slightly longer flight time.
However, non-stop is still a very compelling proposition. So, from a customer experience perspective, it is a relatively minor inconvenience.
Do you think the government should consider some relief for Indian carriers who have been affected by the Pakistan airspace closure?
It is not for me to discuss that through the media. Clearly, we have been having close engagement with the government through this period for all sorts of reasons.
It is just a discussion that we will continue to have. There are many ways in which we support the government, and the government supports us; we are on the same team.
About 32 airports were closed in northern and western India for about a week after Operation Sindoor. Which of the 32 airports were you operating your flights to? And have your flight operations come back to normal at these stations?
Across the Air India group, there were 13 airports whose closure directly affected us.
It meant we did not operate around 800 flights that would have otherwise taken place.
About 75,000 customers had to be refunded or reaccommodated. It was disruptive to not just us but to the travelling public.
Those airports, for most parts, have now reopened. Travel sentiment, obviously, is a bit affected, so we have not put back the full capacity (to these 13 airports).
For example, we were operating 12 flights a day to Srinagar. So, it does take a while for those to recover. But we did make a commitment, and again, this is where we work very closely with the government.
The Airports Economic Regulatory Authority (Aera) has recently allowed airport operators in Delhi and Mumbai to charge higher user development fee (UDF) from business-class passengers. This has never happened in India. What do you think about this new step?
The burden clearly falls more on us because we operate first-, business- and premium economy-class seats.
More appropriately, it falls more on our passengers. I think when you look at the infrastructure that is provided, it is not clear to me that a different class of passengers uses materially different infrastructure (at the airport). Lounges are provided by us.
The rest of the infrastructure is largely the same. So, I guess you would have to ask the regulator why they believe a certain proportion of passengers should pay more than others when they are getting effectively the same product and service.
I can understand the argument that a first- or business-class passenger might be able to absorb the charge more easily, or the person who is paying is a company rather than an individual. But the fact is, it is a cost on the traveller, and that has to be borne by the traveller and/or the airline and the industry.
The higher the cost we have to bear, the less travel there is going to be, or the less margin there will be for investing in more travel. It has a compounding effect.
We, at core, have an interest to make sure that Indian aviation is fair, competitive, and keeps a broader economic and social value of a healthy aviation ecosystem, front and centre.
Can you give us some details about your plans for the Navi Mumbai airport?
Our case is slightly more complex because we operate through a hub model in the existing (Mumbai) airport.
So, while we certainly want and will operate from Navi Mumbai, we need to be judicious in what routes we move to Navi Mumbai -- such that we don't weaken the hub.
Those discussions are ongoing (with the airport operator), and we will make some announcement in due course.
Is leasing planes an interim solution to deal with the supply-chain issues and consequent slow deliveries of new planes?
Let us bear in mind that we leased 11 B777s. We also leased 25 A320s.
We will take delivery of the 50th B737 whitetail aircraft next week. We took six whitetail A350s.
We have pretty much consumed all capacity that was out there for immediate availability, whether leased or whitetail.
If there was more, we would have taken more. Every airline is struggling for more capacity due to production delays.
So, yes, in theory, it is a solution. In practice, there is nothing to get.
Feature Presentation: Rajesh Alva/Rediff
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