The Rediff Interview /Pappu Yadav

'Political savvy is one thing but murders for the sake of clinging to power is quite another'

Rajesh Ranjan alias Pappu Yadav was a prominent member of the Janata Dal in Bihar till he fell afoul of Chief Minister Laloo Prasad Yadav. When Tara Shankar Sahay met Pappu Yadav, the Samajwadi Party leader swore he would end Laloo Yadav's "dictatorship". Excerpts from an interview:

Laloo Yadav was your friend, but now you are campaigning to oust him from the Bihar chief ministership.

Arre, wo ghatiya aadmi hai (oh, he is a dirty person). He preaches social justice, but it is just thinly-veiled self-interest. He is selfish in the extreme. He has low cunning and has used the social justice card to rise to power. Those of us who have seen through him told him that it could not be tolerated.

When he ignored our warnings, a few of us left. But there are numerous others whom he has cowed down through sheer bullying and terror. Lekin hum usko dhool chatayenge (but we will make him bite the dust).

The press in Bihar says you parted company with Laloo Yadav because of ego hassles.

Ye bakwas hai. Jo party mein lagan se kam karta hai usey Laloo Yadav naukar samajhta hai (That is nonsense. Laloo Yadav treats sincere party workers like servants). When I realised this, I made my displeasure known and quit. I have nothing but contempt for him.

What do you think about the fodder scam?

I think no differently from the rest of the people: Laloo Yadav is involved and that is why he is trying to avoid prosecution.

But he still enjoys considerable support in Bihar.

He had that kind of support before, but not now. If other parties, including the Samajwadi Party, have made inroads into Laloo's political territory, he has himself to blame...

Laloo's passion for dictatorship, for complete control without a murmur of opposition, is a reality. Those of us who had the guts to tell him so on his face did so and quit the Janata Dal... There are many others who want to part company but are afraid to do so, because Laloo keeps threatening them with dire consequences.

But despite all this, the chief minister has still marshalled many supporters in the Bihar unit of the Janata Dal?

They are all people who have been lured by Laloo with promises of position and power. Whether it is a place in his cabinet or party posts, Laloo dangles it in front of partymen. Mind you, there are always strings attached. He demands unquestioned obedience and loyalty. Some partymen are lured in. After that they become mere tools in Laloo's hands. He treats them like dirt. All these are the hallmarks of a bully and a coward.

How do you see Laloo's position now?

Let me draw your attention to the mysterious murders of crucial witnesses in the fodder scam. You have to see who benefits from this. Political savvy is one thing but murders for the sake of clinging to power is quite another. When nemesis tends to catch up with you, this is what happens. But democracy will trample dictatorship, you will see.

Why don't you straightaway refer to Laloo Yadav instead of resorting to innuendo?

Do you think I am referring to a ghost? Laloo's days of chicanery are over and, despite his efforts, he is fast approaching oblivion.

What if he bounces back into the political reckoning?

That is unlikely. The way Laloo conducts himself is bound to ensure his self-destruction and political suicide.

Tell us what you think of this interview