'Who the hell is paying for Altaf Hussain's stay in London?'

So you don't think there are any disgruntled Muslims in India?

I have no idea. Disgruntled elements are there in every country. Take, for example, the USA. Do you think the Negros are very happy there? They are not. Take the UK, do you think that Indian and Pakistanis are happy there? No! Some of them are always disgruntled. Human beings are a funny race. You give them something, they want more. Give them something more, they want something more. At the same time, there are some chaps who are quite satisfied with whatever they have. I don't think that everyone is happy. Like, everybody is not happy in Pakistan.

Altaf Hussain, the Mohajir Quami Movement leader, says the Pakistan army does not recruit Mohajirs.

You cannot take Altaf Hussain in the army. He is a crook. We have had one brigadier, Brigadier Mukhtar Karim who has just retired. He is from Patna.

So Altaf Hussain is lying?

Do you know Altaf Hussain's background? He was a taxi driver in New York. (Laughs) So how do you expect that chap to be a leader?

Altaf Hussain claims that Mohajirs are not able to move freely in Pakistan.

No, this is not true. Lahore is full of Mohajirs.

So the Mohajirs are not treated badly in Pakistan?

No. I don't say that. There are some pockets... But certainly, I can say that they are not treated badly. There may be some chaps who must have been treated badly. For example, if Mohajirs attack a Pathan colony, the Pathans will retaliate. That is what happens. And this is a common phenomenon in India too.

Why does riots occur so often in Pakistan, especially in Karachi?

The Sindhi population in Pakistan is very backward. And the Mohajirs are progressive. Because of it there is animosity.

So Altaf Hussain's claim that Moharjirs are second grade citizens in Pakistan is wrong?

In the first place, Altaf Hussain is not a leader of the Mohajirs.

But his party is winning elections in Mohajir-dominated areas. Moreover, when he gives a speech on the telephone from London, hundreds of thousands of people congregate to listen to his speech.

(Gets angry) Who is paying those telephone bills? My friend Bikram Singh in India and I would love to speak to each other on the telephone. But both of us cannot afford it. Who the hell is paying Altaf Hussain's telephone bills?

How can you deny that he has no clout?

He has no clout. Now the MQM has split into another party. And I believe that he is facing a lot of opposition in Pakistan. How is this man living in London for the last five years?

He says he will be killed in Pakistan and his life is under threat?

They have not killed him so far. Everybody who runs away from Pakistan says his life is under threat. When I resigned as ambassador in Greece in 1977, the British ambassador came to see me and asked whether I wanted asylum. I said what for, I am going to stay in Vienna and live with my family.

Don't forget these politicians, all of them, want to solicit sympathy. And this is one way of doing it. My life is in danger. I ask you, who the hell is paying for Altaf Hussain's stay in London? Is it a joke to stay in London for the last five years? Kidhar se aata hai paisa (from where does the money come from)? Don't tell me that he earned this money when he was a taxi driver in New York?

General Gul Hassan's photograph: Atul Chowdhury

Tell us what you think of this interview