The Brajesh Mishra Chat
Brajesh Mishra, the prime minister's political secretary, revealed on Thursday, August 20, why he is the man Atal Bihari Vajpayee relies on when the going gets tough. Charming. Diplomatic. Eloquent. Truly, a man for all reasons.
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:6 IST)
Hello, I have arrived. I am ready to take your questions now.
omaramar (Thu Aug 20 1998 7:39 IST)
Hello Mr. Mishra. I must first congratulate you on your eloquence and clarity of thought. Can you tell us a few things about these nuke explosions -- like do you see any analogies in the explosions of 1974 and the recent ones in terms of national defence needs?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:13 IST)
Omaramar: The basic difference between the explosions in 1974 and those in 1998 is that there has been great improvement in our knowledge about underground nuclear explosions. Secondly, whereas the device exploded in 1974 was somewhat primitive, now even sub-kiloton devices and a thermonuclear device have been exploded. This guarantees for India a credible nuclear deterrent.
Samuel Rohatyn (Thu Aug 20 1998 7:59 IST)
Ambassador Mishra: How close is India to signing the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty? I understand that considerable pressure has been made in this matter.
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:16 IST)
Samuel Rohatyn: Yes there is pressure on India to sign the CTBT immediately and unconditionally. But we have stated categorically that we will negotiate with key interlocuters in order to arrive at a decision when to adhere to CTBT. This will take time and we will have to show our country the benefit which will accrue to India by adherence to CTBT.
neeti (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:7 IST)
Sir, I would like to know was it necessary to break the world order? What did India get out of it? Has India consolidated its position in the international arena by going nuclear?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:19 IST)
neeti: India has not violated any international agreement to which it is a party. The non-proliferation regime which you term as World Order is discriminatory. It legitimises the possession of nuclear weapons by five states in perpetuity while denying to others the means to ensure their security. We will never accept this kind of nuclear apartheid.
Brahm Astra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:15 IST)
Mr Mishra: Can you expand on the issue of the timing of the tests vis-a-vis political mileage and local political instability?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:22 IST)
Brahm Astra: The nuclear tests were undertaken purely and simply to ensure India's security through the acquisition of a minimum nuclear deterrent. This was a continuation of the policies which were expounded by the BJP for more than a decade. There were no partisan political consideration involved in the decision.
PalashK (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:20 IST)
Mr Mishra, just a reminder about my question, waiting for a response: Sir, serious charges of accepting bribes for the transfer of Mr Bezbaruah have been levelled against the PMO. As the man in charge of the PMO, can you categorically deny this? Also, can you categorically deny that Mr Ashok Jain was involved through the PMO in the transfer of Mr Bezbaruah?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:22 IST)
PalashK: The answer to both your queries is a categorical denial.
Nitin Nimkar (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:19 IST)
Mr. Mishra, Do you consider nuclear tests are really the reason for reversal of economic progress or is it the lack of clear direction?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:25 IST)
Nitin Nimkar: The economy has been suffering from recessionary trends since last year. The economic consequences of the underground tests are limited, both in scope and time. The situation has begun to improve in the last few weeks despite the aberrant behaviour of the stock market.
Angela Hart (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:19 IST)
Mr Mishra: Your country is taking great pride in its nuclear accomplishments, but what is the use of such pride if you can't provide the basic necessities to your people like food, water, sanitation, health? Any government should first improve the lot of its people. The only difference is that you are a poor country with a bomb. Will you be able to feed your people with it?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:28 IST)
Angela Hart: The first task of any government is to ensure its sovereignty, territorial integrity and unity. This is what we have tried to achieve through the nuclear tests. It does not mean, however, that we are neglecting the problem of poverty of a section of our population. The government has programmes for provision of basic necessities including, first of all, creation of jobs for the unemployed.
Spinster (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:21 IST)
Namaskar Mr. Mishra, The BJP government promised, stability, security and good governance. Where are we today? Thanks in advance for answering my question.
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:32 IST)
Spinster: Would you not agree with me that there is more stability than last year? Good governance is a matter of objective assessment. We have been in office for just five months. Apart from the underground nuclear tests to ensure our security, there has been a remarkable solution to the Cauvery river waters dispute. The promise we made for creation of new states is also being implemented. And a number of schemes relating to women and children have been announced and are in the process of implemented. I think this is good governance.
Tina Brown (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:30 IST)
Mr Mishra, it is ironical, that the US embassies in Islamabad and Dacca are under threat, while in India they are not. Yet, the US continues to humour Pakistan over India. Is it a failure of your country's diplomacy all along, that the world's most powerful democracy is unable to recognise the potential of the world's largest?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:36 IST)
Tina Brown: The problem doesn't lie in the failure of our diplomacy. It is the US attitude of favouring its client-states. But by and by, public opinion in the United States is coming around to the view that India is a better partner in economic and political terms. We are heartened by the understanding shown towards India in the last few weeks by a significant section of US public opinion. And as you must be aware, talks are going on between India and the US to resolve the problems which surfaced after our nuclear tests.
PalashK (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:29 IST)
Thank you for the answer. Second question: What are India's expectations from the forthcoming meeting of Mr Vajpayee and Mr Sharief at the NAM summit? Do you envisage a change in Pakistan's attitude?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:40 IST)
Palash K: It is hoped that the prime ministers of India and Pakistan will meet again at the Non-Aligned Summit as also at the UN General Assembly later in September. The Indian prime minister tried his best at the SAARC summit in Colombo to promote the resumption of dialogue between the foreign secretaries of India and Pakistan. However, Pakistan insists that it will discuss only the question of Jammu and Kashmir, and relegate the other important subjects to a later date. We feel that there should be a composite dialogue encompassing all matters of mutual concern. In this way progress on some items which could lead to a better understanding between the countries. We will once again try to persuade Pakistan to agree to a composite dialogue and not a mere discussion of J&K. In any case, meetings between the heads of two governments are important and help in creating the possibility of progress.
Chris Hitchens (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:34 IST)
Ambassador: Your prime minister told President Clinton of the threat to India from China. Yet, we have seen no evidence of this. Could you provide some more information about this, information that will bear up to scrutiny?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:46 IST)
Chris Hitchens: The threat perception from China is a long term one. The basic problem is that while being a nuclear state itself, China helped in a material way the Pakistan nuclear programme as also the development of its missile system. So the situation faced by India is that we not only have a nuclear weapon state to our north but also another one to our West. This Chinese assistance to Pakistan in the nuclear and missile fields emboldened Pakistan to launch its proxy war in Jammu and Kashmir. Pakistan felt that it could continue with its proxy war because of its possession of nuclear weapons.
Hamir Thakur (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:42 IST)
Mr. Brajesh Mishra, India got Independence in 1947 and when China was liberated in 1949 India's economy was 10 times stronger than Chine's. Today, after 50 yers, Chinas condition is 3 times better than India. By simple maths it shows that China progressed 30 times faster than India. Why India could not?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:48 IST)
Hamir Thakur: You should address that question (on China's better progress) to those parties that formed the previous governments in India. We have been in office for a bare five months.
desir (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:43 IST)
Mr. Mishra: It seems Pakistan is trying take advantage of the current interest of the international community on Kashmir. What is your take on it?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:49 IST)
desir: You are right. Pakistan is trying to take advantage of the current situation the Kashmir question. It tried the same thing in 1993, 94, 95, but failed. It will not succeed now.
Karthik Subbiah (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:43 IST)
Mr. Mishra, As much as I would love to say Vande Mataram, I am disturbed by the way the reactions to the efforts making it mandatory to say it in schools. If the Muslims object to this on religious grounds, do you think giving an option between saying Vande Mataram and Sare Jahan Se Acha would solve the crisis?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:52 IST)
Karthik Subbiah: Vande Mataram is not a religious song. Very often, in official functions, Sare Jahan Se Achha is also sung by the people. The latest occasion was in the central hall of Parliament on August 15. Neither of the two songs is religious in character. What is happening is in Parliament, at the opening and closing sessions, both Jana Gana Mana and Vande Mataram are sung. Please do not give Vande Mataram a religious tinge.
Tina Brown (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:48 IST)
Mr Mishra: Mr Jaswant Singh had said he was in favour of converting the LoC into the actual border... Is it a line you are in favour of?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:56 IST)
Tina Brown: Mr Jaswant Singh did not say that he was in favour of accepting the LoC as the border between India and Pakistan. What he said was that if Pakistan wanted to bring that up during the discussions, India will not object to it. So far as India is concerned, the government is bound by the unanimous resolution of Parliament adopted on 24 February 1994, on J&K. This resolution mentions the recovery of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.
Sunil K (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:51 IST)
How can you say the nuclear tests are the BJP's achievement? It can only be its decision. The previous governments are also responsible for continuing research and funding. After all, the BJP was barely a couple of months in office when the tests were conducted. Can anyone achieve nuclear tests within such a short time ? All that you can say about the nuclear tests and the BJP is that it was a decision to conduct the tests. I wonder whether you can term it as the "BJP's achievement."
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:0 IST)
Sunil K: The nuclear tests are the BJP's achievement because the government led by it demonstrated the political will to undertake them despite all the pressure exerted on previous governments. As you must know, in 1995-96, preparations were made for nuclear tests but they were abandoned because of American pressure. But the BJP-led government went ahead with the tests despite the certainty of economic sanctions from some countries. This is the BJP's achievement.
desir (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:59 IST)
Mr. Mishra: Thank you for your answer that Pakistan will not be allowed to take advantage of the situation. Could you answer the question why India is not ready to talk about the Kashmir issue with Pakistan first? To me it seems like India is not able to concentrate on its strengths because of this war/misunderstanding with Pakistan. Don't you think India, being the powerful one, should take the lead and try to settle the issue even if it has to fake bowing down to Pak's wishes a little bit? I believe the moment we do that, India can sideline China and can concentrate on using its enormous potential to become one of the 'good' superpowers!
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:6 IST)
desir: Pakistan knows that any discussion of Kashmir will not lead to early solutions. In fact, it could lead to a deadlock which would enable Pakistan to redouble its efforts to involve third parties in seeking a solution to the problem. Secondly, it will also deny the possibility of some progress on other issues which concern both countries. This would further aggravate the situation in the two countries rather than ameliorating it. The best way to proceed is to have a composite dialogue.
PalashK (Thu Aug 20 1998 8:31 IST)
Another question: Repeatedly, you and also the defence minister, George Fernandes, have been saying that PoK is a part of India and that you want to talk to Pakistan on how to get it back. What progress have you made in this regard?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:8 IST)
PalashK: Obviously, we are not going to engage in a war to recover PoK. We are patient and will continue to strive for an atmosphere in which we can persuade Pakistan to give up the territory it has illegally occupied.
Uma (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:4 IST)
Mr. Mishra, can the BJP show the same will in economic policies?? Because it is the only way to control India bashing going on here....that too from our own citizens... No wonder we remained backward after 50 years of independence...
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:10 IST)
Uma: The BJP-led government is very active on the economic front. This is proved by the fact that despite all the doomsday scenarios we have been able to limit the impact of economic sanctions against India. There are programmes which have been put in place and which we hope will begin to show results in the coming weeks.
lovekesh (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:9 IST)
Are you suggesting that there is no resolution for the Kashmir problem?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:14 IST)
lovekesh: The solution to the Kashmir problem requires time and patience. That is why India has suggested to Pakistan that we should make progress on other issues. In this way, we can create a better atmosphere in which to discuss the question of Kashmir. Once there is economic co-operation between the two countries, people to people contact is increased, a better atmosphere will prevail.
Sunil K (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:10 IST)
Mr. Mishra, as you said business was facing a recession since last year. Since you were already in trouble, what did you achieve by getting economic sanctions imposed at this particular time? Couldn't you have waited till the recession eased a bit? What do you have to say about the timing of the tests? Why now, of all the times? Were you not sure about the stability of the government and how long it would be in power?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:18 IST)
Sunil K : The priority was to ensure the security of the country. Economic sanctions are limited in time and scope and have in reality not contributed to the exacerbation to economic problems. It is the developments in East Asia which came after the nuclear tests which contributed to increasing the economic problems. But I can assure you that we are dealing with them and we will come out of the recession very soon.
Tina Brown (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:18 IST)
Mr Mishra: There was also a promise from your prime minister to reactivate the cell in his office -- which you head -- to fight corruption? Reactivate means the cell was moribund in the first place? Why was it allowed to wither away? Because you thought there was no corruption in India? Did you seek the opinion of foreign tourists who visit India on corruption? Now what is your gameplan to tackle corruption, which is all-pervasive in India, and which is among the reasons Westerners shy away from your country?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:21 IST)
Tina Brown: The first priority is to tackle corruption at high levels. That is why in the last session of parliament the Prime Minister introduced a bill to establish the system of an ombudsman (Lok Pal). We have every intention of fighting corruption and we have begun to tackle it at the higher levels of the government. I do not agree with you that corruption is the reason why more tourists do not visit India. After all, they do go to other countries in large numbers where corruption is more rampant than in India.
vaibhav (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:16 IST)
Mr Mishra, why can't a war with Pakistan and settle the issue for once and for all?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:23 IST)
vaibhav: Wars do not solve problems. They create further problems. Diplomacy, negotiations, talking to each other are better methods of solving problems.
Samuel Rohatyn (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:22 IST)
Mr Mishra: My country has been known to want a solution to the Kashmir dispute. We have very successfully involved ourselves in Northern Ireland and the former Yugoslavia. Would you allow us to oversee a just and lasting solution in Kashmir, a solution that will finally bring peace to South Asia?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:26 IST)
Samuel: Have you really solved the question of Northern Ireland? That is not the impression I get from the very recent bomb blasts. Mediation tends to impose solutions which are later defiled. Mediation has been going on in West Asia for a number of years with the US leading the efforts. We are still far away from a solution to the Israeli-Arab problem.
lovekesh (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:26 IST)
If China is the natural ally for the US, why not Japan for us?
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:28 IST)
lovekesh: We want good relations with the US, with China and with Japan. The US provides a nuclear umbrella to Japan and is a more staunch ally of that country than of China.
Mr Brajesh Mishra (Thu Aug 20 1998 9:30 IST)
Thank You very much for your interest. It is 9.30 pm in India and time for dinner. I will be back again for another round. Good Day and Good Night.
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