The Mani Shankar Aiyar Chat
Mani Shankar Aiyar, eloquent and entertaining as always, in the second of the monthly chats.
Rediff On The NeT (Wed Jul 23 1997 17:58 IST)
WEL-COME TO MANI SHANKAR AIYAR CHAT
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:2 IST)
Everyone: Hi folks, I am here now shoot.
madhu (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:9 IST)
Mr Aiyar, It is a pleasure to have you with us
Vithoba (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:9 IST)
So, what's up, Mr Aiyar, will Mamata B break away from the Congress and form a regional party?
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:14 IST)
Vithoba: I rather doubt it. Mamta is having her moment in the sun. I think she should be left to enjoy it. I am sure she will stick with the congress party.
madhu (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:11 IST)
Mr Aiyar, I had been folloowing ur writings keenly on the Net...u never made any comment on the the "entry" oMrs Gandhi into the party....why so ?
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:19 IST)
Madhu: None of the Gandhis, starting with Mahatma Gandhi, has ever had need of a post in the party or government to figure as an important element in our polity. Similarly, Sonia Gandhi has been a significant player in our politics even while keeping herself out of the political arena. In common with almost all other Congressmen, I am hoping that her primary membership of the party might signal a more active participation by her in our political life. If we go in to the next elections (due shortly) under her leadership, whether she holds a position in the party hierarchy or not, we will end up with atleast 50, possibly 100, seats more than we will get otherwise.
P Chawla (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:12 IST)
Maniji, you are punctual for a politician! I didn't expect you so soon. The last time you were here you said the UF government would not last beyond a month. It is still alive,, so when will the Congress make its move? would
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:22 IST)
P Chawla: I had thought the UF would disintegrate. Actually, it is bio-degrading. That takes a little longer. But I am still not willing to take a bet with you that Gujral will raise the flag on independence day. That is why he is postponing all decisions; once he has raised the flag, he will start taking decisions. As soon as he does so, the end will be nigh. Every minister in the UF government I have spoken to privately expects a winter election.
Politician (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:15 IST)
Your columns are entertaining and intelligent. But are they honest? Or must we not ask a politician that?
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:27 IST)
Politician: I love your pseudonym! If I were Freud, I would say you have picked your alias because you feel inadequate about your own capacity to lie. But do not let that get you down. I know several politicians who also cannot lie and tell the truth as they see it. As the truth is not a papaya that you can see, feel and eat, as Jesting Pilate said, "What is Truth?"- but would not wait for an answer. I tell the truth as I see it. That may, however, not be someone else's truth.
Just Another Person (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:19 IST)
Mr Aiyar>> When do you suppose we will see an authentic Indian hero, in any field? Come to think of it, who was the last one?
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:30 IST)
Just Another person: The authentic Indian hero is the khet mazdoor toiling in the fields and the labourer breaking stones in the sun to lay the road on which your car whizzes by. The authentic Indian hero is always there, eternal because he is the genuine article, not a bogus middle class myth like friend Seshan!
Chat Queen (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:23 IST)
ooof!! so veryvery difficult saab to get into this chat. Anyway, saar, Namashkaram!! Could you please tell us how the Congrees is going to look after the non-sainiks in Mumbai?
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:33 IST)
Chat Queen: By doing to Bal Thackeray what the Allies did to Hitler. To begin with, we should get Thackeray in to a bunker!
madhu (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:29 IST)
Mr Aiyar.......is it possible for get in touch with u thru email..if so...could i have ur email ID......if privacy is a issue, u could actually mail it to my address kannanm@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:38 IST)
madhu: I have an e-mail address at the Rajiv Gandhi Foundation but I cannot recall it off hand because our national server, the Videsh Sanchar Nigam Limited, is so utterly inefficient that it is quicker to get a message out by mail pigeon than through e-mail. So, I use the fax. My fax number is +91 11 375 5119. Send me your private message by fax and I will get back to you on e-mail. If my reply actually gets through to you before Christmas, I will kiss the chairman of VSNL and hail you as a new prophet. Otherwise, we will have to confine our exchange of sweet nothings to the fax. Okay?
P Chawla (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:24 IST)
Mr Aiyar, since we spoke last, the Congress has done nothing to invigorate itself. It still remains a party listless and impotent. Why don't you join the BJP, a party more suited for men of action like you?
Chat Queen (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:31 IST)
Aiyar saab, What made you want to throw in your lot with the Congress....is there any hope of it regaining all its past glory? I have a point of view, saar, Indian culture and history goes back at least 3-4 thousand years...we have not changed oue culture or way of thinking. The British are a mere pimple of two and a half centuries...what's so great in celebrating 50 years of "Independence"?
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:47 IST)
P Chawla & Chat Queen: I am sorry to disappoint you but being one of Midnight's Children, for the last 50 years I have seen that every time the Congress comes to power, it completes its term, whereas every time any one else comes to power, however large or small the majority, they just crack up, sooner rather than later. This is now happening once again. So, as in 45 of the last 50 years, so also in 45 of the next 50 years, it is only the Congress that on its own or as the dominant partner of a coalition is going to run this country. The BJP has peaked. Not until they wash the saffron from their knickers will they succeed in persuading tolerant India to give them a seat on the gaddi. So long as the BJP remains a Hindu party, it will remain untouchable; of course, as soon as it becomes an Indian party, it loses its identity and becomes indistinguishable from the secular parties. That is the essential dilemma of the BJP. If it remains itself, it will not win. And if it changes itself to win, then it no longer remains the party of 'Hindutva'! Why on earth should I join such a losing proposition? Thank you very much, I am where I am and will not leave the Congress till my dying day.
P Chawla (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:33 IST)
Aiyarsaab, why is Soniaji staying away from the fray? She alone can save the party. If she is unwilling, she should let Priyanka do so. Instead of baking pizzas for Bob Vadhra, she should be guiding this great nation which needs the charisma of the Nehrus.
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:48 IST)
P Chawla: AS for bringing the Gandhi family back into our politics, I am with you all the way. All power to your elbow!
P Chawla (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:14 IST)
Mani, what is your prognosis for Indian politics for the next 6 months?
madhu (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:16 IST)
Mr Aiyar....how far do u think this drive towards "disinvestment go on...??" where do u see the "Navaratnas" are headed...?
Vithoba (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:17 IST)
Mr Aiyar, objectively -- what is your assessment of the Gujral government's poerformance so far? has it brought us closer to saffron raj?
Vithoba (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:20 IST)
Mani: I am shocked that the Indian government convened its first meeting to discuss plans for the 50th anniversay on Monday. Why are we Indians so shoddy? Why could this event not have been planned ten years ago? Is it because we are obsessed with politics?
Politician (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:23 IST)
Do you think Kesri's efforts to tame the government may make the UF so timid that the country may be pushed towards a biased but strong saffron government next time?
Politician (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:25 IST)
Don't you think Kesri should go easy on Gujral, at least to show that the Congress isn't a bully? Or do you think this government needs restraint?
Just Another Person (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:30 IST)
Mr Aiyar>> *cracking up at your reply to politician* So the truth, as you see it, could be different to mine and his? In other words, it's nothing more than an artistic moulding of the unshapely clay of fact?
Just Another Person (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:32 IST)
Mr Aiyar>> Then how come we don't have a statue up to that chappie, which we could decorate with garlands and such? And that eyesore on the Marina in Chennai doesn't count!
madhu (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:23 IST)
Mr Aiyar...I hail from Tanjore and have witnessed the change that your stint brought to the Mayuram area.........just when things were getting better, you lost the election.. ..doesn't this frustrate you.....what more can a professional do to be involved in development and continue to win the people's support
Vithoba (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:35 IST)
In less than three weeks from now, we will be 50 years old. I am gripped by deep pessimism that India will not be one in 2047. I see balkanisation, with the north-east breaking away. Do you share my pessimism?
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:55 IST)
Vithoba: Your pessimism is entirely misplaced. We are just about the only country to have come out of the thralldom of colonialism in the last 50 years to have actually translated independence for our country into freedom for our people. We are as much a democratic miracle as South East Asia has been an economic miracle. As far as human rights, civic liberties, a plural polity and a free press go, it is we not China, Singapore etc. that are the real Asian Tiger. As regards development, please look at the most recent issue of The Spectator, published in London, which shows that while China will overtake the USA as the world's largest economy by 2023 at the latest, India will overtake the USA by 2051. If we put a little zip into it in the next few years, we could easily bring 2051 forward by a quarter century. And we would have done it without putting the country under a permanent emergency, as has been happening in almost all of South East and East Asia. Given the choice over the last 50 years of being an Indian or a Chinese, I think anyone who values human freedom would pick tortoise India over the Chinese hare.
sandy (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:44 IST)
Mr Aiyer do you think there is any hope that India will progress looking at current situation when the PM of I K Gujral's calibre is so pessimistic about the fixing corruption in INDIA ?
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 21:1 IST)
Sandy: Of course, corruption is a problem but there is no bribe-taker without a bribe-giver. It is not our polity alone that is corrupt; it is our society that is corrupt. Unfortunately, the bulk of our articulate middle class contents itself with pointing the accusing finger at the political class without recognising that the political class is corrupt because it is corrupted by those outside politics. I think Gujral is to be congratulated on having had the courage to recognise his limitations in public rather than hypocritically pretend, as most Opposition parties and much editorial pontificating pretends, that there is some magic wand which, with one wave, will blow away corruption from our society. So, will you not join me in raising half a cheer to Gujral's frankness?
Rishi (Wed Jul 23 1997 20:36 IST)
Mani, tell us the truth like a man, WE ALL KNOW RAJIV TOOK THE BOFORS MONEY. so why not be honest with yourself and make a clean breast, c'mon, be brave
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 21:6 IST)
Rishi: Delighted to meet one more Bofors Buffoon. For the last ten years, since the Swedish Radio broadcast of 16 April 1987, you guys have been trying to pin the goods on Rajiv Gandhi. Your great mentor, V P Singh, that almighty fraud, said during the election campaign of November 1989 that he would reveal the names within a month, then within a fortnight, then within a week, and finally (taking a paper out of his breast pocket) that he already had the name with him. Ten years later, all we have is a tissue of bogus allegations. You are welcome to your fantasies about Rajiv having taken the money. I know that it was 'N' of the 'Ardbo diaries' who set up the scam. Get him, and the truth will out.
tyne (Wed Jul 23 1997 21:2 IST)
The "real Indian", the "khet mazdoor" are nice catch word. But there are few Congressmen trundling the plough. Like the humble Deve Gowda.
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 21:9 IST)
tyne: You got Deve Gowda wrong. He is not a humble farmer but a fumble harmer. He would not know a plough from a Gujral. If Stalin had been around, he would have known what to do with this kulak. Alas, since we don't have a Siberia, all we can do is banish the joker to the dustbin of history.
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 21:9 IST)
Everyone: Sorry, time's up. I look forward to meeting you again on the chat show next month. Bye for now.
Raj Reddy (Wed Jul 23 1997 21:9 IST)
Mr aiyar: Chandrababu naidu seems to think that mid-term elections are round the corner -- he has already asked his MPs to prepare for the snap poll. How many seats will the congress get if the poll is held after Gujral unfurls the flag?
Mani Shankar Aiyar (Wed Jul 23 1997 21:13 IST)
Raj Reddy: One last post script. Whenever elections are held, the Congress will get at least 50 seats more than it did in 1996; and if we put together some intelligent pre-poll alliances, as I think we will, the Congress-led Front will get a comfortable majority. We may not have succeeded in getting a Congress hand to unfurl the flag on the 50th anniversary of Independence, but I assure you that it will be a Congress hand on the steering wheel that will steer the country into the 21st century. Jai Hind!
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