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Cronje's June 22 testimony

MR WALLACE: Mr Commissioner, I'm sorry. You made a statement that this has been in the Press and you are surprised. It has not been in the Press in the form in which it has been handed to us, and my learned friend specifically introduced this with the basis that this has more in it than has been otherwise available. And on the face of it, what I'm reading in the first page is material I have never seen before. It has not been available to Mr Cronjé. It has not been available to his legal team, to the best of my knowledge it has not been in the Press. And the statement concerned seems to bear a facsimile date of the 1st of June. So it's been in my learned friends position since before the Commission started to sit. And it should have been handed to us, with all due respect. Those were the undertakings that were given and those undertakings were given because that is the proper way in which these things should be done.

COMMISSIONER: Very well. Let me hear what Ms Batohi has to say.

MS BATOHI: Yes, Mr Commissioner. Firstly I'd like to say there was absolutely no intention to mislead Mr Cronjé's team in any way or to place them in any disadvantaged position at all. It was simply that prior to the - well, prior to my dealing with this transcript I spoke to my team and said, 'well, look we do need a decent transcript of what has been appearing in the Press.' And in fact I believe Ms Wilkinson-Luck - if one looks at BA-W2, which is an attachment to her statement, contains everything that is contained in this statement, except for the first page. And if one looks at the first page - what's contained in there, it's really - well, in my view, nothing contentious at all. ...(intervention)

MR CRONJE: Mr Commissioner ...

MS BATOHI: ...and apart from that it is exactly what is contained in BA-W2.

COMMISSIONER: You wanted.....

MR CRONJE: I hope I'm not out of line by saying this. Ms Batohi, in all respect to you and you've got to understand where I come from as well, and I'm speaking not after consulting with my legal side. There was also reports in the media that huge sums of money had been transferred to my England account. I've checked that. There is no money that's been transferred. So what I'm trying to say to you is that everything that has been in the media - is that what I'm being tried on? What's come out in the media?

COMMISSIONER: Mr Cronjé, I think you should address that question to me. I'm not suggesting for a moment that you're being tried on what's in the media. I merely made the point that this particular transcript had been currently shown in the media, it appeared in various newspapers, but as I've said to Mr Wallace, if you're disadvantaged, if I'm satisfied that you are being disadvantaged, I will - if I have any doubt in my mind the doubt will be exercised in your favour I can assure you, then I am prepared to take whatever steps are necessary without attributing fault or blame to anyone at all, to enable you to consult with your counsel and attorneys, although it is unusual during cross-examination, but I trust you and I trust them to confine themselves to this, what I understand now is a new matter that they were not previously apprised of, and in that way I'm sure that you will not be disadvantaged in your giving of evidence.

MS BATOHI: I'm not sure whether I can proceed or whether Mr Wallace needs an adjournment to look at the first page and take instructions.

COMMISSIONER: Mr Wallace, would you like the opportunity of consulting with your client on the contents of the transcript, the whole of them? Not just the first page.

MR WALLACE: I frankly - I don't think that will help at the moment, Mr Commissioner. The damage has been done. The man's - if there is damage, it's been done. My protest is that the way in which this is being done is that Mr Cronjé and his team are not being fairly or properly treated. And this is, as I say, the third time it's happened in two days. And it's unsatisfactory. We have every reason for wanting this cross-examination finished. And perhaps, I would suggest, the proper way to deal with it is for Ms Batohi to continue with her questions, such as they are, let me see what the questions are that she asks about the additional material, which I know nothing about, and if I need at that stage an opportunity to consult with Mr Cronjé, I will ask for it.

COMMISSIONER: In what sense has your client been damaged? If I accede to that, which is somewhat less than I was prepared to offer you, but if you're happy that Ms Batohi should continue to cross-examine on the basis on the transcripts of these telephone conversations, then obviously I'll allow her to do so, as what she intends to do. And then, if at that subsequent stage, whenever it is, that you require time, you may of course have it. Are we agreed on that, Mr Wallace?

MR WALLACE: Yes, thank you, Mr Commissioner.

MS BATOHI: Before I continue, Mr Commissioner, I think I should place something on record. The transcript that was handed to Mr Wallace yesterday which he referred to was given to him 10 minutes before we resumed after lunch, it was something that I received yesterday morning, and was typed in haste yesterday morning. I accept at the earliest opportunity - I could have given Mr Wallace that before then. We hadn't had copies made et cetera, there were logistical problems, and it was handed to him at about 10 to 2 yesterday. That is the first thing. The second thing as regards this particular transcript, as I've already said, it is exactly the same as that which appears in Ms Luck's statement, which Mr Cronjé's team have had from inception. There's one part in the front page,which is a small part which I believe is hardly even relevant in this matter, and my learned friend, Mr Wallace, has said that this is an unfair manner in which I've been dealing with this, and I would like to place on record that there was absolutely nothing, I believe, in my conduct that was unfair. It was just the circumstances that made that absolutely necessary. In addition, I'm really not quite sure what damage this has called as my learned friend has said, but if there is any then I certainly am very sorry about it.

MR CRONJE: Excuse me, Mr Commissioner, can I speak? Once again, Ms Batohi, I just want to know when you say that there's no damage been done, these transcripts of tapes, whose phone, where, when, what time, were they tapped, bugged? Was it mine, was it Sanjay's, whose phone, whose cellphone was this from? Whose mobile phone was this from? Whose hotel phone was it from? If you can tell me which telephone, where, what date, what time, then I can answer the question. At the moment you're shoving a lot of statistics, a lot of conversations in front of me. I don't know when, where, what time. You see, the transcript that you gave yesterday talks about me phoning somebody in Sharjah. When I was in India, you said that I - the transcript said that I called somebody in Sharjah and spoke in a foreign language. The only person that I know in Sharjah that I would speak in a foreign language would have been my wife. Now if I speak to my wife it is on a personal phone. The cellphone that I was given in India by Sanjay wasn't able to phone internationally. What I'm trying to say is that there's - I haven't consulted with my legal side as I'm under cross-examination. I'm saying to you today, where is the invasion of privacy? Who's bugged? Is Interpol misleading you? Are we being tried on media? I just want to finish, Mr Commissioner. Are we being tried on media? Are we being tried on speculation? You see, at the moment there's a perception being created, Ms Batohi, that huge amounts of money was transferred to my account for the five One-day matches in the U.K. That is what I've been tried on. Who says these weren't cut-out, put together.

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