'Without our support Nitish Kumar wouldn't have become chief minister.'
'After the government was formed we became ministers, but our agenda remained the same: Amit Shah had promised reservation for Nishads.'
'He wouldn't listen, so we went to UP and contested 52 seats in the 2022 elections. He didn't like the idea of rebellion.'
'He saw that this man, coming from Bombay, is very sharp. He's made four MLAs now, tomorrow he'll make 40. A time will come when they will make it 125.'
'They bought our MLAs and ousted us from the government.'
Mukesh Sahani embodies a powerful story of aspiration rising from Bihar's extremely backward castes (EBC).
Born in Darbhanga, Sahani left home at 19 for Mumbai, not to join politics, but to seek a better life. He worked his way up from being a salesman to a successful Bollywood set designer, his company designing sets for major films. Yet, the persistent poverty and backwardness of his community, the Nishads/Mallahs -- a collective identity comprising over 20 sub-castes -- drew him back to his home state in 2013.
Sahani's political career is singularly focused on securing scheduled caste status for the Mallah-Nishad community, who are currently categorised as EBCs in Bihar, but enjoy SC status in states like West Bengal and Delhi.
This injustice became the core of his struggle, leading him to form the Vikassheel Insaan Party (VIP) in 2018, using the 'boat' as its symbol to represent his fisherfolk community.
His political journey has been marked by fluid alliances, often breaking ties with parties that failed to deliver on the SC reservation promise. He campaigned for the Bharatiya Janata Party in 2015 and later joined the Rashtriya Janata Dal-led Mahagathbandhan for the 2019 Lok Sabha elections, before switching to the National Democratic Alliance for the 2020 Bihar assembly elections, where VIP won four seats.
In the ongoing Bihar assembly elections, Sahani and the VIP have re-aligned with the Mahagathbandhan, positioning themselves as a crucial player. The Nishads/Mallahs are estimated to represent around 11% to 12% of the state's vote base, making their support vital in Bihar's hyper-caste environment.
Recognising his ability to swing the EBC vote, the Mahagathbandhan has declared Mukesh Sahani its deputy chief ministerial candidate, a dramatic elevation that validates his decade-long struggle. Sahani's fight is framed as a commitment to social justice, aiming to uplift his community by using the power of the vote to gain a share in government and, ultimately, secure the long-denied SC reservation.
"We believe we can do the work that we're asking Amit Shah and Narendra Modi to do. We just need to reach that place, and money isn't necessary to reach there," Sahani tells Sheela Bhatt in a fascinating conversation.
SC status for the Mallah community, which is classified as OBCs in Bihar -- is this your main election plank?
It's classified under OBCs, but we are among SCs in Bengal.
To address this, we started an awareness campaign. We raised awareness among our people throughout Bihar, connected them with our own people, and told them to educate their children, live in unity, and fight for their rights.
If you don't fight for your children, who will? So, we started this kind of movement throughout Bihar.
The Nishad community of Bihar, known by 22 caste names, represents 11 per cent of the population here. People used the 'divide and rule' policy, so this community was kept fragmented.
Bind is also a Mallah, Sahani is also a Mallah, Kevat is also a Mallah, Gaumanta is also a Mallah, and Munia is also a Mallah. Here, they are known by different names in different districts. But everyone has a beti-roti ka sambandh.
We recognise caste only when we connect with each other through marriage. So we accept him as belonging to our own community. That's why we protested in Bihar, and always during elections.
In 2014, the BJP's then Bihar chief Mangal Pandey made an agreement with us that he would work for us and we should help him. We helped him, but after the elections were over, he forgot about us.
Amit Shah promised us that if we help him in the 2015 Bihar elections, he will implement SC reservation for us. We helped him too.
In 2015, when I had been in politics only for a year-and-a-half, he organised 47 rallies with me in Bihar. Because wherever I went, crowds would gather. At that time not many people in Bihar knew Amit Shah. Only politically-oriented people knew him.
He was in charge of UP and had won the maximum number of seats from there so the political people here knew him. Then suddenly he was made the BJP national president. But not many people knew him in Bihar, so the crowd did not come in his name; the crowd came in my name.
The result was that the BJP was in a bad shape in Bihar due to the alliance between Lalu Yadav and Nitish Kumar. They had sidelined the leadership here because, after losing the Delhi elections, they took control of the 2015 elections. Then they forgot about us.
We contacted them several times, but they wouldn't discuss reservations. They always insisted, "Come to our party, become our leader, become an MP, an MLA, a minister, and live your life."
I replied, "I've left the luxuries of Bombay. I am not just fighting for myself; I am fighting for our people. And you should fulfil the reservation promise you made to the community."
We had a falling out with them in 2016, and we left them. I did a lot of work in Uttar Pradesh. Then we organised protests in 2017, and in 2018 we formed a political party.
We believe we can do the work that we're asking Amit Shah and Narendra Modi to do. We just need to reach that place, and money isn't necessary to reach there.
Babasaheb Ambedkar gave us the right to vote, and we can reach there on the strength of our votes. Our people have the votes.
Until now, they were selling them, while others occupied the chair. If we make our people aware, votes won't be sold.
Yes, we will take that chair, and if we do, we will implement reservation within the ambit of the Constitution.
We formed a party in 2018 and, in alliance with Lalu Prasad Yadav in 2019, failed to achieve success in the Modi wave. In 2020, we were working strongly, but for some reason our alliance with the Mahagathbandhan broke.
Then I entered the fray to contest the Bihar elections alone. Amit Shah asked me to join him. And because we joined them their government was saved. We formed the government with 125 MLAs. We had four MLAs.
Without our support Nitish Kumar wouldn't have become chief minister.
After the government was formed we became ministers, but our agenda remained the same: Amit Shah had promised reservation for Nishads.
We were rebelling while remaining in the government. He wouldn't listen, so we went to Uttar Pradesh and contested 52 seats in the 2022 elections. He didn't like the idea of rebellion.
He saw that those who had been oppressed in society for thousands of years, who were crushed under my feet, and this man, coming from Bombay, is very sharp. He's made four MLAs now, and tomorrow he'll make 40. A time will come when they will make it 125.
As part of a conspiracy, they bought our MLAs and ousted us from the government. We've been waiting for this moment for the last three years, since 2022, while staying out of the government.
We've been waiting for this moment where we will remove Modi from Delhi and the BJP from Bihar.
We stood with the INDIA bloc in 2024. However, the atmosphere in the country was in favour of the BJP and because Nitishji joined the BJP, they formed the government in Delhi, but that won't happen in Bihar.
Here, under my leadership, under Tejashwi's leadership, people in Bihar have become quite aware. If you look at the results in North Bihar last time they weren't good. This time the results will be better, and we will form the government.
It is said that you and Nitish Kumar have a very good relationship. How do you rate him?
When Lalu Prasad Yadav had to be removed, the government and the people trusted Nitish Kumar to strengthen social justice in Bihar, because someone has always exploited the backward community here.
Backward communities always seek leaders from within their own communities. Lalu Prasad Yadav had to be removed, so Nitish Kumar was chosen.
Nitish Kumar formed his government in 2010 through hard work and dedication.
Nitish Kumar always kept social justice in mind. He never allowed riots to break out in Bihar, never allowed one religion to fight another, and strived to give the poor and Dalits their rights.
The BJP, by being with him, tries to create an atmosphere of tension in Bihar, distributing swords during Ram Navami or other festivals, but Nitish doesn't believe in these things, and that's why I always like him.
And you are fighting him today?
Yes, sometimes it happens that we think broadly, and Nitish is thinking for himself.
Whenever Nitish has thought about his community and state, we have praised him. Now, I think it's not right for Nitish to become chief minister again at this age; it's not good for Bihar.
Nitish has become unwell. He also knows that he is not healthy. The future of millions of people is at stake, and he can't throw it into the dark. If it's his personal gain and desire to become chief minister again, then I think it's an injustice to the poor and Dalits of Bihar.
We are impressed by how you dreamt of such a big dream at such a young age. Did you ever think you would become a deputy chief minister candidate?
I realised my OBC status when I studied at school in the village and then suddenly moved to Mumbai, where I started working as a labourer in Goregaon (north west Mumbai).
I had moved away from all this. What kind of knowledge would a person have at the age of 18? Nowadays, children have mobile phones and the Internet, so they've gained a lot of exposure to the world, and they've learned a lot. Back then, we used to watch Chitrahaar on Doordarshan for music. That was the era. Now, just type Google on your mobile phone once, and whatever movie you want will appear instantly. Back then, all this wasn't so prevalent.
When I went to Mumbai, I started working in the film industry. I started working with Sanjay Leela Bhansali and other big actors and actresses, so my thinking and understanding reached a different level.
I had risen above society, caste, and creed. And I was living in a different world there. When I returned to Bihar, I connected with the people here.
Why did you return to Bihar?
I returned to Bihar for Chhath Puja in 2008; my father used to perform all the pujas.
I connected with the people. I have already created a better life, a better platform for myself. It would be better if I could be useful to my people. Then I started a movement for my people.
Did you ever dream of becoming a deputy CM candidate?
After this, I see my next generation becoming the chief minister of Bihar. People from my own Nishad community will be the chief minister of Bihar in the future. But only if I fight this battle today, will it happen in the next 10 to 15 or 20 years.
Would it be correct to say that you will struggle so much that Bihar will one day see a Nishad as chief minister?
Yes, we will struggle so much that the next generation becomes the chief minister of Bihar. People from all castes and religions have become chief ministers.
Is it true that the Mahagathbandhan was initially reluctant and you had to exert a lot of pressure on them?
No, that's not the case. Do you think that by pressuring respected Rahul Gandhi or Tejashwiji, we will get something done? That's not the case. This alliance hadn't been formed yet.
So how did you convince them?
There was no need to convince them because when we became part of the alliance in 2024, it was already decided that the next state elections would be held in your (Tejashwi Yadav) and your (Mukesh Sahani) name, and you would be the deputy CM candidate. This was decided at that time.
What has been the reaction?
There's a lot of joy in the community. People are distributing sweets and laddus.
Who proposed that you should be the deputy CM? Did the RJD propose it or the Congress? Was it Rahul Gandhi's idea or Tejashwi Yadav's?
Look, initially it was my desire. Because if we form a government, and certainly, the Nishad community in Bihar has a strong vote base with the NDA, and if that vote were to join the Mahagathbandhan, the government would be formed.
What share do our people want in the government? One is that you contest the election with a certain number of seats, and your alliance's number of seats is determined, and then it's decided what your participation in the government will be. So, participation in the government means becoming a minister, deputy chief minister, or chief minister.
The position of chief minister is not possible because the Rashtriya Janata Dal, the largest party, contested the 2020 elections under the leadership of Tejashwi Yadav, so there's no vacancy for the chief minister. Now, as for the next highest profile, deputy CM. If I form a government, I want a deputy chief minister in the government to reassure our people.
Both Tejashwi and Rahul Gandhi agreed to this. Rahul Gandhi agrees because a son from the OBCs has now come through struggle, and he saw the strength of the VIP across Bihar during the Vote Adhikar Yatra. So he connected that Mukesh Sahani has worked hard and struggled at that level. So Mukesh Sahani should become the deputy chief minister.
And Tejashwi was already clear that both of us brothers will bring change in Bihar and form the government. Both of us agreed, so the Congress took a step back and he accepted me as the deputy chief minister.
Whose views do you align with more, the RJD's or Congress'?
At the base level, Rahul Gandhi. And at the state level, Lalu Prasad Yadav.
Ideologically, is Nitish Kumar untouchable for you?
I admire Nitish Kumar. As long as I live, I will always respect him. Some of his qualities I don't like include, "Why should you become a groom again at this age?" He's already unwell, 75 years old. He should pass on the legacy to a new generation, and at this time he should bless us and give us a chance to work.
If Nitish Kumar thinks he alone can bring progress to the state, that's not true, because times have changed. The Internet is here. Nitish Kumar is 75 years old, and the country is undergoing a lot of change, but Nitish Kumar is unaware of anything.
Because Nitish Kumar is a leader, his lifestyle, food habits, and everything are the same. He doesn't know what's happening on the roads. His people report to him. Right now, he knows that whatever ground report he has been given, Nitish Kumar will accept it. Because they don't have any other system to check the reports.
In 2010, officers were afraid to submit any reports, even false ones, because they knew Nitish was powerful. Now, those officers know what Nitish says in the morning, what he says in the evening, and what he will say tomorrow. So, the state is currently run by bureaucrats.
Bureaucrats can never see the state's progress. They only care about their own interests, wanting to remain in power. Because there's pressure on leaders: The public elected them for five years, and if they perform well for five years, they will be re-elected.
But bureaucrats know that their terms are fixed until they are 60. They can get an extension and serve for two more years, but leaders can be replaced in five years. Therefore, leaders work with care, most of the leaders. If some people are negligent, they are still ousted from the government and the system.
You've been declared a deputy CM. Do you believe that if another deputy CM is declared, he should be a Muslim?
Look, we will announce another deputy CM after the elections. Our government is certain to b formed, and we've already said we'll appoint another deputy CM. We'll determine which caste or religion they'll be from. We haven't made that decision yet. We'll decide when the time comes.
For us, all castes and all religions are equal. We practise A to Z politics. We have to create a place in the government to advance our community and give it respect.
This deputy chief minister or CM position isn't our fiefdom. It's a system, and we have to work there. And we're doing it for the good. This isn't some inheritance from our father that we can distribute. We consider this a system, and those who are entitled to it will work within this system.
There are only two leaders in this state who are acceptable to both sides: You and Nitish Kumar. I have two questions in one. Should Nitish want to return, and Chirag Paswan wants to come along with him, are your doors open for them?
Look, we appreciate our social justice philosophy, and whether it's Chirag or Nitish, they are people who value social justice. And if we all get the opportunity to work together in the future for the progress of society and the state, we won't mind, provided there are no conditions attached.
We all can work together for the state's progress, because Chirag is the son of the late Ram Vilas Paswan. And I've heard and seen Paswanji, and I've worked with him, and he's always believed in uplifting the poor and underprivileged, and I know his son will share those same qualities. And certainly, if he thinks so, there's no harm in working together.
And if the BJP offers you the position of deputy CM and calls you after the elections, will you go?
Absolutely not, because they'll make me their leader there, but they won't accept me as a leader. They'll just keep me as a loader. So, if I'm just kept as a loader, what's the point of going?
Don't you think Prashant Kishore is a big obstacle? Because everyone believes Prashant Kishore can cut votes from both sides. And his question is, just like you were saying that I went out of Bihar for work, he too is raising the same issue: Did anyone go to Bihar for work? Like you, he's on a different path, but it's very interesting. What is your thinking?
Look, Prashant Kishore is a Bihari. He's talking about Bihar's progress, he speaks well, and he's speaking very well, and that's valid. But if you look at his history, it becomes clear that Prashant Kishore has no ideology. He'll sometimes form a government for this party, sometimes for that party, and form a government for those who get the most money. He has no ideology of his own. He's never liked democracy.
Commercialising politics in elections, because politics has already become commercialised, and big industrialists have come here, this is not the essence of India; commercialising politics is not a system of the Constitution.
Babasaheb Ambedkar created the Constitution with the belief that the people are the masters, and if the leaders perform well in five years, they should be retained, otherwise they should be replaced.
But showing a different dream through TV, media and newspapers, and then forming a government through fraud is not the purpose of democracy or the Constitution.
Prashant Kishore recently realised that he could form a government by making others spend money. He also felt the desire to form a government in Bihar by spending money.
He'll get some vote percentage, right? He'll also get a seat.
He'll get some vote percentage.
Whose vote will they cut more, yours or theirs?
We know all citizens are with us. Now who will vote for them will be determined after the elections. And we also don't believe that their vote and mine are different. It's over now...
Interview transcribed by and Feature Presentation: Mahipal Soni