'But they had nothing to negotiate as the government did not negotiate. It is completely the fault of the government as they dumped it on the police.'

Key Points
- 'Pellet guns were used for the first time in Delhi, there is no rationale in using pellet guns in a city.'
- 'People who have been hit by pellet guns should be given adequate compensation for life because your eye has been damaged for life.'
- 'Pellet guns are not the answer. It is a bad thing to use. You use teargas, chilli spray or water cannon.'
Former Special Director, Intelligence Bureau, and former Information Commissioner Yashovardhan Azad has filed a petition in the Supreme Court calling for a complete ban on the use of pellet guns in crowd control, arguing that the weapon is inherently indiscriminate and incompatible with democratic policing.
On Thursday, the Supreme Court ordered the government to preserve the ammunition logs from the Jantar Mantar protests.
Speaking to Syed Firdaus Ashraf/Rediff, Azad said medical evidence from those injured during the Cockroach Janta Party protest contradicts the government's assertion that pellet guns were never used.
While acknowledging the dangers the police face during violent demonstrations, he maintained that law enforcement has access to safer and more effective non-lethal alternatives, including teargas, water cannons and pepper spray.
The Supreme Court of India said there will be no blanket ban on pellet guns for crowd control.
The Supreme Court said you have to challenge the particular provision under which these pellet guns are used. We said we don't have the copy of the standing orders and SOPs (standard operating procedure).
They (the Supreme Court then said (to the police) please put up all the standing orders and SOPs to the government and secondly give all the material on the Rapid Action Force as to how pellet guns were taken out.
On the medical treatment the Supreme Court directed the government to provide treatment to those injured during the protest.

Your petition focuses on pellet guns. Does it seek a complete ban, or only stricter guidelines on when they can be used?
I want a complete ban.
The government says pellet guns were never used during the CJP protest, a claim which was repeated in Parliament by Union Minister Jitendra Singh. In that case, what forms the basis of your petition?
There are two people who have been hurt by pellet guns and yet the government is denying that pellet guns were used in the CJP protest.
That is the reason I have gone to the courts.
They can say whatever they want as it is up to them, but the medical report from the hospital says that the injury is caused by pellet guns.
Alternatives to Pellet Guns
If pellet guns were to banned, what alternative should the police have when facing a violent crowd?
There is an array of weapons which can be used like teargas shells, water cannons, pepper spray and lathicharge.
Pellet guns were used for the first time in Delhi, it was used earlier in Jammu and Kashmir or maybe in Manipur.
We have said (in the petition) that there is no rationale in using pellet guns in the city because of technical problems.
When you fire a cartridge which is full of metal shrapnel, they move around not at a particular target but as area target.
That is why even if you are hitting one guy, it may hit the other guy because of shrapnel which are like a cloud which is created and not accurate.
And in democratic policing you cannot afford to have an indiscriminate kind of a target. It has to be distinct and below the waist where the effect is minimised.
That is the idea of crowd control as the crowd is not an enemy whom we try to manage and not try to kill.
International Best Practices and Police Reforms
Are there internationally accepted best practices for crowd control that India should adopt?
It is the same. International opinion about this is that non-lethal force should be used.
The weapons should be based on necessity and proportionality.
It cannot be indiscriminate (firing).
The weapon should be pointed and effective for a particular purpose.
That is why when you give out a cloud of fire it is not in your hands.
What is in your hand is the trigger but the outcome is not in your hand because it is not going exactly at the same place but hits the other person nearby.
It can hit her/his eye or leg or sensitive organ.
Therefore, I say technically it is not correct to use pellet guns as you have an array of weapons which can be used.
What reforms would you recommend in police training to improve crowd management while minimising injuries?
Reforms are a separate issue and there are huge things to do in training but what I am saying is that pellet guns per se must be banned.

Secondly, people who have been hit by pellet guns should be given adequate compensation for life because your eye has been damaged for life.
You naturally need different compensation, rather than onetime payment of a few lakhs.
The reforms for the police are many; for example, in facing a law and order situation, the police should be better equipped.
The states are not spending any money on the police.
The home minister has no idea what the police is doing. You cannot run around with an AK-47 for law and order issue like in Bihar.
If you see in Delhi, some policemen were using lathis and were in normal uniform.
They must have a proper shield, proper helmet, proper guard and adequate weapons which are non-lethal.
It becomes a force multiplier. One man is equal to ten and then you have solid dedicated response.
Addressing Police Challenges, Government Accountability
As reporters we too meet policemen and they tell us that it is easy to speak of police brutality whereas on the ground they are facing a dangerous mob and they respond based on their intuition and what their mind tells them to do so that the situation does not go out of control. How do you counter this argument?
You are confusing two things.
I have been DIG Bhopal and I had a clash situation where 140 students were injured as well as 60-70 policemen were injured.
This happens all the time. You have to face it.
If you are a superintendent of police you have to be prepared to face law and order situations.
It is true that you get attacked but everyone has faced this situation in the last 70 years.
But then, pellet guns are not the answer. It is a bad thing to use.
You use teargas, chilli spray or water cannon.
You resort to firing too if policemen are getting killed.
If a policeman is getting killed, he has a right to fire.
Don't use pellet guns because you are not able to direct your fire properly.
It is unnecessarily creating injury which is very damaging.
Pellet gun is not the answer and its usage per se is wrong.
On July 17, the Union home ministry replaced Delhi police commissioner Satish Golcha in an abrupt administrative reshuffle. In hindsight, do you think that was the wrong decision by the government?
He had asked for negotiations which the government did not want to do.
It is completely the fault of the government.
They did not care for negotiating with the youth protest which asked for the right thing.
They asked for the resignation of an incompetent minister. It asked compensation for the poor kids who committed suicide after the NEET paper leak.

And what is Rs 1 crore each? Chickenfeed.
The government did not agree.
And then they bundled away Sonam Wangchuk whereas they could have monitored his health on the spot, on an eight-hourly basis.
We have been doing that in the past for so many agitations.
And when you do this (bundling away Sonam Wangchuk) and later when the march was announced this was bound to happen.
Does it mean the police officers who used pellet guns must be personally held responsible?
There were senior DCPs (deputy commissioners of police) on the spot. They are the ones who take on the frustration (of the mob).
Did the order to use pellet guns come from the Delhi police commissioner or the home ministry?
Anything can be used if it is available depending on the gravity of the situation.
That depends on the commander on the ground.
They will take the decision.
Some youngsters in the protest said they will turn India into a Nepal by bringing in anarchy. So what should the police do when people talk of revolution?
The police should care a damn. It should do its job by managing the protest.
The first thing the police should have done was negotiate but they had nothing to negotiate as the government did not negotiate.
It is completely the fault of the government as they dumped it on the police.
The issue was forgotten and everyone started talking of police barbarity whereas the issue was the NEET exam paper leak.
This is a joke as it was the failure of the State.
Have the courts laid down clear principles on the use of force during protests, and are those principles being followed consistently?
Everyone knows how to handle the crowd as they have been handling it for 100 years.
How you announce first. You negotiate.
You then announce on loudspeakers that it as a prohibited area.
You then ask the crowd to disperse.
If they don't disperse you use water cannons.
You have teargas smoke, then electrical gas smoke or lathi-charge, so many options.
And finally, if nothing works, then shoot.




