'We have to be a coalition nation
because that is the only way India will
maintain her unity in diversity'

Where do you think India is going? How do you visualise our future?

I am very upset and worried about the country. But, at the same time, I see a spark of hope. Because realisation has finally dawned on the people.

They may make fun of the ruling 13-party coalition, but you have to remember that India is a coalition of peoples. Unless we admit that, we cannot go any further. Otherwise, there will be Balkanisation, purely on the basis of politics and power, that will prove to be infinitely worse because it has nothing to do with ideology or ethnicity or anything.

We have to be a coalition nation because that is the only way India will maintain her unity in diversity. No one man, no one party, no one province can lead this country. We have to have a coalition. You journalists must promote this instead of saying that Narasimha Rao is not going to last two months or that Deve Gowda's going to go out in two days or four days or 10 days. We are a coalition nation. Admit that first.

Today, more and more people who have committed crimes like corruption and social injustice are being exposed. And it is the women of India who are going to save this country.

Why do you say that?

After all, we comprise half the population. For many centuries, we've been suppressed and have not been allowed to play our rightful role. We have been treated as if we are weak and ineffective. But now, women are coming out of their shells.

With education, women have developed a clearer view. They don't get blinded by passions or anger. And the fact that they are mothers, or would-be mothers, gives them a different perspective altogether.

Even when communal incidents take place, we have found heroic, brave and committed women taking foolhardy risks for no reason except a sheer sense of justice. Women have these feeling of "I have been living next to this family for the last 15 years, how I can go and kill them or betray them to be killed? As a result, they have saved so many lives."

I feel that if there is more involvement from women, if more rights are given to women, it will make a big difference. People were sceptical when reservation of seats for women was introduced in the panchayat. Everyone said, "Oh, what can all these uneducated, illiterate village women do?" Let me tell you - if the village is to have one tube well or one hand pump only, a woman will not insist that it should be installed outside her house only. She will know the right place.

A woman is aware of things like that. Because she is the one who suffers. The problems of India today affect women more than they affect men. She is exploited socially, she is exploited financially, she is exploited economically and she is exploited because she is a woman. She has to fight against all this. Changing society for the better is something that a woman can do.

What do you think about the attempt to reserve 33 per cent ofthe seats in Parliament for women?

We opposed this step for a long time. But seeing the way things are going and, after the experience of the panchayat elections and the way reservation has worked there, I feel reservation is very necessary. Otherwise, there is a tendency to bypass completely women altogether.

What do you think about women like Phoolan Devi who are making waves on the political scene?

But the poor things are not coming up on their own. They are being put up by men who want to make use of them. It is not their fault at all.

What do you think of Prime Minister Deve Gowda's announcement of a new state, Uttarakhand?

(laughing) And Uttarakhand will lead to Jharkhand. And Jharkhand will lead to Gorkhaland. And Gorkhaland....

In short, is there unity in diversity today?

Yes, it is possible. Despite all the machinations of these politicians, we still have an underlying unity in diversity. The politicians are doing their best to break this unity, but it is still there.

Why do you think India needs an Indo-Pak match on a crisis to unite?

We don't just need an Indo-Pak match. The sense of unity becomes even stronger when people meet on foreign soil. Why, all these Pakistanis tell us, "I don't know why we are separated because everywhere we go people think we are Indians. Hamare mathe pe nahin likha hain ke hum Pakistani hain ki Hindustani hain." (Our nationality is not written on our foreheads.)

I've met so many young Pakistanis and people from Bangladesh, they have come to one of our INA conventions in Calcutta. Outside we are united because we have to fight against the white man. At such times we feel, why did the Partition have to happen?

What do you think of the liberalisation process?

I don't think it is right at all.

Why do you say that?

Who is the liberalisation process benefitting? The policy, as it is today, has thrown thousands of people out of jobs. What we need in India today are new jobs. But how is that going to be possible when you don't give education facilities to anybody?

Today, we use computers; we use the latest technology. How are the people who have been denied all these facilities ever going to catch up. They will never catch up.

Today, the poor cannot even afford to send their children to school because education is so expensive. I suppose the government hopes they will all die because, today, a poor person can't even afford any illness.

What do you think we should do then? What should we focus on to build a better, stronger nation?

First, we must have more than constitutional equality - we must have real equality. No one should be more equal than the others. The other thing is education. Education is very very, very important in today's world.

How do we ensure this equality?

We must begin at the school level. We must ensure that children from all strata of society are admitted to educational institution and that they all get the same treatment there. Once we get there, we can move on to bigger things.

What is your opinion on the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty?

I absolutely agree with India's stand. And we found the backbone to maintain that stand because we had a woman in charge. We could not be browbeaten. Arundhati Ghose made me feel really proud of being an Indian, of being a woman.

America constantly tomtoms human rights. But, of all the nations in the world, they have abused human rights the most. Why did they have to drop that atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The war was already over; the Japanese had surrendered. Not only did the Americans kill thousands of people; they even destroyed future generations.

What have they done in Vietnam? They have laid waste the ground so that not even a blade of grass will grew there for the next, I don't know, how many hundreds of years. And they talk of human rights!

Do you think dynastic rule will make a comeback in India?

There will be many attempts to bring it back but I don't think it will happen. All these sychopants are after Sonia Gandhi today, but the ordinary people are not. Besides, she is a sensible lady. She does not want to meet the fate of her husband and mother-in-law.