'If you fire two missiles at Jamnagar or ten missiles there, what do you think India will do?'
'India will fire 500 missiles on Tarbela and Mangla, destroy the Sukkur Barrage, destroy Karachi port.'
'When you start issuing threats, it should be with some sense and sensibility.'
'You shouldn't just shoot your mouth off just because you have appointed yourself field marshal.'
Pakistan Army Chief General Field Marshal Asim Munir's nuclear threats from US soil over the weekend have sparked intense debate about America's strategic calculus in South Asia and its implications for regional stability.
Speaking at a Pakistani diaspora event in Tampa, Florida, Munir warned of taking 'half the world down with us,' prompting questions about whether this represents tacit US allowance or a dangerous miscalculation by Washington.
In an interview with Prasanna D Zore/Rediff, Sushant Sareen, Senior Fellow at the Observer Research Foundation, the New Delhi think-tank, argues that such inflammatory rhetoric reflects Pakistan's confidence in renewed American backing, suggesting the current US establishment deliberately wants to "cut the Indians down to size" following New Delhi's resistance to trade concessions and tariff pressures.
How extraordinary is it that Asim Munir issued his nuclear threat from US soil? Does this suggest tacit US allowance or miscalculation?
This wasn't at a CENTCOM event as initially reported by many news agencies. The CENTCOM event was separate -- General Munir had attended to felicitate General Michael Kurilla, the outgoing commander of the United States Central Command, at his retirement function in Tampa, Florida. This was at an event for the Pakistani diaspora in the US.
Although there are reports that an Israeli general was also present, this particular event where he spoke was specifically for the Pakistani community.
Something similar he had said even on his last visit, so there is nothing unique in what he has said. I'm sure the Americans know where he's coming from, and yet they don't object because they think that the Pakistanis are useful for them -- either as a lever against India or simply for their own purposes.
This is a point in time where the Pakistanis can literally say anything and then deny it, because denials have come from the Pakistani side saying that he said this in response to a particular question and that he was being benign about it -- that they don't want war because if there is a nuclear war, then half the world will be destroyed.
They are putting it in those terms, but quite clearly this was nuclear sabre-rattling.
What emboldens Munir to use such outrageous language?
Look, let's face it, we need to start getting used to the kind of people who are now going to be heading the Pakistan army. These are the post-1980 generation -- the chaps who have come in when the Pakistan army transformed from the old British Indian colonial army into an Islamised army.
Looking at his own background, you should rest assured that there will be more such rhetoric from the Pakistanis.
Secondly, what emboldens him is the fact that the Pakistanis feel they are in with the Americans now and they can say certain things and get away with it.
You remember the 1980s when they were the stalwart allies -- Punjab was burning and the Americans turned a blind eye, the Brits turned a blind eye.
Even till the early 1990s, they turned a blind eye to terrorism in Kashmir and all the other activities that the Pakistanis were doing.
It's like asking what emboldens the Khalistanis in Canada -- because they have a licence to operate given to them by the Canadians.
What emboldens any goon? That there's no check or hindrance. That is what is emboldening the Pakistanis.
Is there something deeper in the US' muted response to Munir's remarks that signals strategic indifference to stability in South Asia?
I think they are actually encouraging the Pakistanis to do this because they think that the Indians have got too big for their boots.
The current American establishment thinks that we need to cut the Indians down to size, and they will pull out all stops to do that.
People think this is just about some trade deal, but why should India take GM seeds from the Americans? Why should we go into bondage with the Americans on something as basic as seeds?
There have to be certain red lines on what we want, what we can take, and what we will not take.
But they want us to kowtow to them because we don't hold them accountable like the Chinese do. With the Chinese, they'll keep giving waivers, but with us, they will tighten the screws because they think they can do it.
Can one infer that the US is using Munir's threats against India to get even with the Modi government for not succumbing to tariff threats?
I won't say the US president is firing from Munir's shoulders, but he doesn't object if somebody is doing this. What he is probably trying to do is use Pakistan as a tool against India -- partly to negotiate, partly to cut India to size.
That's the old American game, or at least that's what has been the feeling in India -- that it's the Americans who ensure that things never settle down in this region. I would add the Brits to that, but they don't exercise the same power as they did. They just have a great ability to sabotage things and disturb things.
The Americans are playing that game right now, and they might have some uses for Pakistan for personal or strategic benefit. No matter what you do, they're not going to let go of that lever.
Do you think the Indian establishment is taking Munir seriously, or is there a need to recalculate our strategy vis-a-vis Pakistan's nuclear posturing?
I suspect that recalculation is already happening.
One thing which recent operations suggest is that the Indian armed forces are quietly preparing their battle plans and strategies, and they're not necessarily declaring everything to the public.
Before the Pahalgam terrorist attack, Munir gave a very communal speech, and now he's talking openly about nuclear threats -- about firing missiles at the Indus dam if constructed and also firing missiles at Jamnagar.
If you fire two missiles at Jamnagar or ten missiles there, then what? What do you think India will do?
India will fire 500 missiles on Tarbela and Mangla, destroy the Sukkur Barrage, destroy Karachi port, destroy anything of any value in Pakistan.
When you start issuing threats, it should be with some sense and sensibility. You shouldn't just shoot your mouth off just because you have appointed yourself field marshal.
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