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The Rediff Interview/K V Thangabalu

'By nominating leaders, the Congress will not grow'

Not many in Tamil Nadu remember names of the state Congress presidents as they are changed at regular intervals by the party high command. The party has also become a laughing stock in the state, especially after all its candidates lost their deposits in the 1999 general election.

Up till now -- in true Congress culture -- ousted presidents preferred keeping silent even though the high command insulted and embarrassed them without much reason. Not any more. All the former presidents have come together to raise their voice against the present state president -- again nominated by the high command -- and next year's assembly election. Perhaps they have understood that Sonia Gandhi will not be able to win the election for them.

Shobha Warrier met former TN Congress president K V Thangabalu just before he left to garland the statue of Indira Gandhi on her 15th death anniversary. The Congressman began the interview voicing unconditional support to Sonia, but had already issued a warning to her by the time the interview ended.

When you were unceremoniously removed as PCC chief, you chose to remain silent. When the man who followed you, Thindivanam K Ramamurthy, was also removed unceremoniously, he made some noise but nothing changed. Then EVK Elangovan became the high command's new choice. Why did you two decide to speak now?

That is because Madam Sonia Gandhi in her capacity as Congress president introduced a new system in the party. Under the new system, we can have a proper, genuine, free and fair party election. For this, she constituted a committee at the Panchmarhi conclave. Almost all Congress leaders agreed that a separate election commission should be set up, and the committee alone should conduct the election in the party and the election should be very fair and free.

Now, under the new circumstances, the state authority had been assuring us that it would do its work properly. The last date for enrollment of membership was May 31, 2000. After that, on June 6, Elangovan was made president. Now we want the election and their group doesn't.

Why?

Because they do not have proper membership with them. The party workers, almost of all rank and file, want an election. When I was the Congress president, I conducted the election with great difficulty and it was very fair and smooth, taking into account all the factions.

In the 30 years of the state Congress's history, there was no election and it was only during my period that we had an election. I was unanimously elected as president. For the party's unity, I didn't mind giving up the president's post. Then, Ramamurthy was made the president. Now, he was also unceremoniously sent out. The new incumbent, in association with the election authority, Sankaranarayan prepared a list in Delhi and submitted it to the high command for approval.

You mean, without consulting anybody in the state, without a proper election, they prepared a list in Delhi.

Yes. 4, 5 Tamil Nadu leaders were called to the AICC general secretary's room in Kerala House, under Mr Oscar Fernandes's chairmanship, and I was one of them. They put forth the view that we would prepare a list in Delhi itself but I didn't agree because I was not in favour of preparing a list in a hotel room or elsewhere. I want fair and free elections at all levels; that is, at the booth level, block level, district level and then at the state level.

I told them I didn't want to dupe my workers by conducting any bogus election. I told them categorically that it was not acceptable to us.

How did they react when you said so?

They said, they would do this, that, etc. They wanted me to compromise.

Did they ask for a list of your people?

They said: 'Your people also could be adjusted.' I said I was not interested in any adjustments. See, I am not interested in anything but the unity of the party. The unity of the party will only be there if you have elections at the grass root level.

But the Congress has never been conducting any election.

That's why we have installed a commission. Now, we want a free and fair election.

Why do you think Elangovan and the others do not want an election?

They are afraid! They cannot remain leaders if the election takes place. The real workers will become leaders.

The state Congress president is never elected by the party workers. It is always the high command that imposes its candidates on the state.

Even at the primary level, the leader should be elected. Yes, the president also should be elected on the basis of the strength that he enjoys. By nominating leaders, the Congress will not grow. This is my firm opinion. In the case of Sonia Gandhi, Ramamurthy and myself jointly appealed to all the Congressmen all over the country to elect her unanimously.

Why do you want to elect her unanimously? Why can't you have an election for the party president's post also?

I will tell you why. We cited two reasons. One, Sonia Gandhi's victory will galvanise the party. Two, Sonia Gandhi's family has made supreme sacrifices for the party. That is why her candidature is supported by every Congress worker in the country.

Had every Congress worker been supporting her, Jitendra Prasada would not have stood against her. He also has his supporters.

He himself was supporting Sonia Gandhi. But he has filed his nomination also. Earlier Sitaram Kesri had also contested. Rajesh Pilot and Sharad Pawar also contested. There is nothing wrong in having an election for the post of the president. At the same time, there are difficulties.

What are the difficulties?

Only Madam Gandhi has charisma and only she can win elections for the Congress party.

Why is it that Congressmen can't see beyond the Nehru-Gandhi family?

See, she was very reluctant to enter politics. All of us pressurised her to join the party. Everybody including Jitendra Prasada wanted her to become the leader of the Congress. That is why I said we should help her shoulder the responsibility.

Are you not for others standing up against her?

I am not against any individual. I am confident that Madam Gandhi will win.

Elangovan has said your supporter was there with Prasada when he went to file the nomination.

He is only a small fry in the Congress party. He does not know the Congress culture or me. He has been through many parties but I have always been with one party and that is the Congress. I am a true Congressman and a follower of Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, Sanjay Gandhi and now Sonia Gandhi. I don't care about these accusations. Every Congressman knows I am a loyalist.

Then, why did the high command remove you and later install him as the state president?

That's a mistake. We opposed Elangovan's appointment as the president. We know he is an immature person who cannot run or co-ordinate the party. When he was asked to file a nomination for Madam Gandhi, he could even not take ten people with him to Delhi. He made a mockery of it (laughs).

Did you personally meet Sonia Gandhi and explain the feelings of the party workers?

I met Sonia Gandhi, explained the conditions of the TN Congress and told her it was wrong to appoint him. I did all that I could. She said she was also upset over the issue. She was not happy with it.

When she is the party president, why should she feel upset? Does the coterie around her take all the decisions?

I don't know anything about that. I don't want to comment on that at this juncture. I had officially informed the Congress president, the general secretary in-charge and the secretary in-charge. So, all of them are aware of what is happening here.

Still they continued with the same president, the same mockery of elections...

We are very clear in our mind that there should be proper elections in the state. We will not accept anything other than that.

If they did not listen to your demands, what will you do?

We will see. We will think about the next course of action later. I will have to consult my friends and followers.

It is reported widely that Sonia Gandhi is inaccessible to party workers. Is that true?

We are able to meet her without any problem. We will see what will happen soon. So far, she is good to me and I am good to her.

Did she understand your point of view?

She understands. I think she will make corrections. I hope so. I hope she will do justice to the real Congress workers.

Is it because she is politically immature that she cannot take correct decisions?

I can't say she is immature. She has been in the party. She has been with Rajiv Gandhi and Indira Gandhi. I don't call her an immature person. She has experience.

I didn't say she was immature. I said, she was politically immature.

She is brought up in a political family. She understands our problems.

If she understands the party's problems in the state, what prevents her from taking a decision and implementing it?

See, perceptions differ. Soon, she will become a very good leader. I hope.

If the state election do not take place the way you, the old leaders of the Congress want, will you break away from the Congress?

No, no. We cannot think of breaking away from the Congress. We have been with the Congress and nobody can separate me from the Congress. We are the real Congressmen and we will continue being so (laughs). And, we will remain in the Congress.

If she is not sympathetic to your demands, will you support her in the party president election?

We will see. I have no problem in supporting her. But my state and its problems are more important to me. As we are a national party, we have to listen to the central leadership. There is no doubt about that. But the Congress party ignored the regional aspirations of the people. That is why the party is losing. I want the Congress to be the representative of the people of Tamil Nadu. That is more important.

The image of S M Krishna in Karnataka or Digvijay Singh in MP is larger than the central leadership in their states. Do you want the Tamil Nadu Congress to be revived on those lines?

I say it very clearly that the regional aspirations of the people of Tamil Nadu have to be respected first. Only then the party will grow. Only then people will accept the party.

Finally, will the TMC and the Congress come together?

We should. All of us are Congressmen basically. I have been trying for the unity of all Congressmen from the very beginning. I have been telling Moopanarji also.

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