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The Rediff Interview/ Bal Thackeray

'There must be no violence whatever the provocation'

Shiv Sena supremo Bal Thackeray tells Pritish Nandy.

(This interview was taken before the Shiv Sena leader was arrested and taken to a court.)

Do you feel cornered by this move to prosecute you? Are your political options diminishing?

Why should I feel cornered? Why should my options diminish? I am right here in Matosree and I have always been ready for any eventuality. But that does not detract from the fact that this is not a wise move. It will hurt many people. Innocent and ordinary people who have nothing to do with politics. As usual, the poor of Mumbai will be the worst affected by any trouble. I do not want that.

Are you warning that there will be violence on the streets?

I do not want violence. But any such extreme and drastic political step always brings in its wake dangerous consequences. That is what I have warned. When Indira Gandhi was assassinated, did she tell people to retaliate? No. But the consequences were terrible. As Mark Tully has written in his book, 50,000 Sikhs had to migrate to the Punjab. Over 2,500 were massacred in New Delhi alone. It was a sad and terrible thing to happen! But the problem is: No one can control the consequences of a foolish and drastic political decision. That is what I warned the Maharashtra government.

Did Mrs Gandhi tell people to go out and commit these crimes? No. It was the assassination that was the flashpoint. In politics one must learn to avert unnecessary flashpoints that can cause hurt and pain and damage to the people. That was my concern. That was what I said.

What have you told your people?

I have urged them to exercise the utmost restraint under all kinds of provocation. I want them to show the people of Mumbai that we are being painted in the wrong colours. I am ready to go anywhere they take me but there must be no violence, no response to the provocation. We will fight our case in the courts. Not on the streets.

How strong is your case, according to your legal advisers?

I do not understand the media. I edit a newspaper. I am, in that sense, a journalist. What was written eight years ago in an editorial in Saamna is being dragged out to harass me. If the press allows this to happen to one among them, what will stop future governments from taking steps against any editor, any journalist on any false pretext to harass and intimidate them. This is not just a political issue. It is also a media issue and journalists can ignore this aspect only at their own risk. We have a free press in India. How can anyone stop a journalist from expressing a point of view, however contrarian that point of view may appear to the government in power.

To answer your specific question, my legal advisers believe that the courts will see this exactly as what it actually is. Political harassment and brinkmanship.

The question being asked is: Is Mr Thackeray above the law?

No one is above the law. Not me. Nor the Maharashtra government. The law applies to all of us and equally.

How serious do you think the state government is about arresting you and putting you behind bars?

Frankly, I do not know. But I am always ready for any eventuality. My guru had told me that when one is in public life one must be always prepared for anything. My father, who was a social reformer, took very strong positions on many issues. He did not hesitate to actually burn down wedding mandaps where young girls were forcefully married to old men. He taught me to always do what is right and not worry about the consequences. So I do not fear any action that the State may take.

But I have told my followers, my party people not to allow the situation to be exacerbated. To maintain peace and calm under all circumstances so that the people of Mumbai and Maharashtra are not put to any inconvenience just because of the vindictiveness and sadism of an individual. We will respect the law and abide by it. The peace must not be disturbed under any circumstances. That is my appeal to everyone. There must be no violence whatever the provocation.

What about the fears of a communal conflagration if you are picked up?

Nothing must happen. Nothing must happen to anybody, Hindu or Muslim or Sikh or Christian. Not a hair on the head of any Indian must be touched. That is exactly what they want to do. To provoke trouble and hold me or my party workers responsible. That is why we must doubly ensure that nothing untoward happens. That this act of an irresponsible and vindictive government does not create any flashpoint for violence on the streets.

The impression, however, remains that the minorities are the most vulnerable...

During the Sena-BJP regime not a single riot took place. The largest number of communal riots and the worst riots occurred when the Congress was in power. When everyone else failed to quell the violence, I came out and stopped the riots by appealing to the citizens of Mumbai. Was this a crime? As far as I am concerned, we must strengthen the forces of nationalism. Of Hindutva. There is nothing wrong in that.

Why should I be against the minorities? They are an intrinsic part of India. What I am against is anti-nationals. That is our battle. Against those who want to break up India, destroy India, hurt India. Not the minorities. We are against the ISI, the criminal underworld, the enemies of India who are trying to weaken us, suborn us. We respect all those who love India, be they Hindus or Muslims, Sikhs or Christians.

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