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The Jaswant Singh Chat

Nikhil Lakshman: (Thu Feb 13 19:59:26 1997 IST):

Mr Singh, Welcome to the Rediff Chat. Thank you for joining us this evening. I do hope you enjoy the experience.

Namaskar, Jaswant saab, are you there?

Sir, what about your maid?

Is he there with or without his retinue of maids???

Good evening, Mr Singh, what is your prognosis for the Indian economy? Is it in a crisis?

Hello Mr Singh its a pleasure to be able to talk to you today.

Are we the only people here tonite, hum, voh aur uski maids???

Shri Singh, Do you believe we are close to a 1991-like crisis?

Hello, if you invest in India, not simply a project then you can not lose.

Mr Singh, are Indian politicians against liberalisation? The BJP waxes hot and cold, the Congress is as usual full of lies and double standards? So why the charade? Why not go back to bad ol' days of shortages et al?

What is your position on the Swadeshi business? Your party speaks from both sides of its mouth. Could you clarify what the BJP stands for on this issue?

Elisa: Good evening. No, India is not in a crisis. Neither is the Indian economy. As for my prognosis for my country's economy, the first and most important requirement is to free the creative genius of India. For too long, almost for the last 50 years the great creativity of India has been capped on account of over-regulation and excessive bureaucratic control. It is that freedom and release that the country yearns for.

Will the BJP support strong reform policies of the UF government in the upcoming budget, or oppose simply because it is in the opposition. I ask this because the Commies are likely to foul up things with their ridiculous ideas?

Mr Jaswant Singh, please reply?

Politics apart, do you believe Mr Chidambaram has done a good job? Would you have done much the same if you were in charge?

What would you have done different?

You mentioned that Indian creativity had been curbed due to excessive controls. So what would you suggest should be the priority to unleash this creativity?

Mr Singh, there is a great fear that India's debt payments and the oil bill will force the Indian economy into a downspin. Do you agree?

Mr Singh, thank you for answering my question. But I must crave your indulgence, Sir. It sounds too much like Indian political gobbledygook for an alien like me. Could you clarify what you mean?

Mr Singh: What does the word swadeshi stands for? Does it mean that no foreign goods will be accepted to Indians? If yes, will there be a boycott for companies like Levers, Pepsi and Coke under the BJP rule? Please comment?

Singh/socialist: Let me answer you Mr Singh and Mr pseudo-name socialist. As for Indian politicians being opposed to liberalisation, no you got it wrong. The BJP does not wax hot and cold. We must understand that if by liberalisation, we mean freedom from excessive governmental regulations, from over-bureaucratisation, then I have no difficulty in saying that there exists a consensus across the political parties. In economic terms, if by liberalisation is understood free market economies, then too there is a fair consensus. But it must also be understood that free markets is not an euphemism for a free-for-all. A country like India will always have to take into account that 30 or 40 per cent of my countrymen and women have not enough purchasing power to buy eighteen hundred calories worth of food a day, who are not even part of the market. In that case, there is a continuing respnsibility of the state and that role remains. And Mr Sinha, as for swadeshi, it is not any effort to be a ventriloquist. Swadeshi is an assertion of India's economic sovereignity. If President Clinton can say be American and buy American, then all that philosophy of swadeshi attempts to do is to raise the levels of pride in India and things Indian and to cultivate a sense of self-reliance. I have a profound belief that India must modernise. But I have an equally profound conviction that India must not westernise. That in short is the essense of swadeshi. Without that, and without the sense of pride in ourselves, we will end up being a third rate London suburb.

Is it safe to invest in Indian stock markets? Why stock markets are not doing well?

That's all well, Mr Singh, but is swadeshi limited to the Guptas and Bishnois from Karol Bagh who support your party? Is a family like the Tatas not swadeshi enough for you? If it is, why is your junior colleague Pramod Mahajan opposing the Tata-SIA project? Is that the party's point of view as well? Or is that Mr Mahajan's inspired POV?

Mr Singh: Its a pleasure to be able to chat with you. Mr Singh I wish to address a very urgent issue that needs to be addressed by you. MR Singh I would like to know that why is the Film world though called the film industry is not accepted an an industry and not given the neccessary concessions that an industry needs to grow. Mr Singh what are you doing about this issue.

Thank you Mr Singh, for a lion hearted reply, but which remains a politician's statement. Nothing new at all. The fact is that the 30-40 per cent of Indians who cannot eat have been there since Independence, no improvement. Second, Clinton's exhortions are about goods of comparable quality, Must Indians buy an Ambassador car, a junk heap, simply because it is an Indian vehicle? Should not our sheer quality makes us purchase the goods, regardless of nationality?

Deshmukh: Hello, Mr Deshmukh. If you are who I think you are, then what a delight to be conversing with you in this session. You asked me whether my good friend Chidambaram has done a good job and would I have done things much differently. Given the constraints of managing the economy of this sub-continental country of ours, and given the fact that Chidambaram is not a free agent, he is constrained by the minimalist programme of this 13-pointed arrangement at governing our country, I would give him a B minus. This is not a value judgement and not a comment on the abilities and intelligence of the present Finance Minister. As to what I would have done differently, had I continued it is very difficult to answer without sounding boastful. I would have had the benefit of a single party supporting the economic programme of the government. Chidambaram has to manage a bundle of 13. But that notwithstanding, I would certainly have applied myself to what I think are some of the principal areas of concern- firstly, cutting back the size of the government and the enormous waste and expenditure of the government. Secondly, to move away from this tendency towards wanting to over-govern without having the ability to deliver. I would have therefore have addressed much more purposely to curbing expenditure. The second would have been an effort at addressing myself to the enormous debt that we have settled ourselves with and to mitigate this crippling disability of roughly having to pay five thousand crores per month as interest on national debt. The third that I would have liked to address myself is the whole question of a country of near about 92 crores having only 1.1 crores as paying direct taxes. We can not have an ambitious economic reform programme with such a low direct tax base. Something is not simply, grossly imbalanced here it is very wrong also. You would appreciate that I can not give more detailed reply. In any case one is always hesitant to address oneself to the great expertise of a distinguised former civil servant.

Sir, years ago, the BJP advocated liberalisation, yet today it is muddled on this issue. In a bid to occupy the opposition space, your party now opposes the same policy that it advocated. May I ask why?

Mr Singh: Do you think it was a mistake by late Prime minister Pandit Jawharlal Nehru to adopt socialism? And instead, he should have adopted market economy after the independence?

Do you agree with the general tenor of the economic reforms? Where are your differences?

Yes, Mr Deshmukh,that's a good question. I always wanted to know what differences the BJP had with Dr Manmohan Singh's policies?

Mr Singh: PLEASEEEEEEEEE, GIVE SHORT ANSWERS?

Meher, King and Sinha: Firstly, Mr King aboutyour query, the BJP has in fact clearly stated that for the sake of more honest and open financing of India's great film industry must be given the status of industry which means access to proper finance, not simply called an industry. Meher, swadeshi does not mean a total ban on foreign goods. How can that be? And so far as the boycotts undertaken, that will always be in a sub-continental country of ours variety of opinions and the only way to address ourselves will be to have a discourse with them, not to reject them through ridicule. There are any number of serious politicians in the US who speaks of loss of jobs on account of an opening of ths US economy. Protectionism is not dead in the Mecca of free market. That is a fact of life. In which sense India has to compete and protect its interests simultaneously. Mr Sinha, when you talk about the oil bill, you raise a very important question. I do believe that the energy sector in India is a long-neglected sector for which we are having to pay for the price now. That price is in terms of having a perilous power position. The oil exploration management has not been satisafactory at all. The concern that I have is about continuing irresponsibility in the management of the oil pool account. There are answers and there are remedies. But they are not, I am afraid within the capacity of this government. As the PM has suggested borrowing to meet the deficit in this account. A classical example of borrowing to finance current expenditure, a sure recipe for further economic difficulties.

Mr Singh, thank you for answering my question. But I must crave your indulgence, Sir. It sounds too much like Indian political gobbledygook for an alien like me. Could you clarify what you mean?

Sanjay and Kartar Singh: Yes Mr Kartar Singh it is as safe to invest in the Indian stock exchange as it is in the Wall Street. Why is it currently depressed? The mysteries of stock exchanges are extremely difficult to unravel. But I think in part, this on account of politicial uncertainities. Sanjay as for your question, about what right policies 50 years back with a benefit of hindsight. I do believe that that socialistic adoption of economic policies can ran counter to India's natural creativity.

Any more questions?

Mr Singh: When I was in India three years ago, I met some union leaders, they said after liberalisation more than 4 lakh small as well as medium factories in India were shut down because they could not face competition from MNCs? What will you do to revive these companies?

Sir, don't you think an exit policy (even a mild one) is needed. Look at South Korea, where despite stiff opposition, the government did what it thought was right? Will your party support such a bill?

Mr Singh, why are you shying away from the question on the Tatas-SIA issue? Why can't you be honest and let us know what the party's position is? If it is the same as Mr Mahajan, let us know why you are opposed to the Tata-SIA affair.

Shiela Kushe: The ancilliary and small scale are given some kind of fiscal or text protection all over the world. In the first flush of liberalisation, this was an area that was not sufficiently appreciated. This is also an area that gives a great deal of employment. The answer therefore is to protect through taxation and courage through technology upgradation.

Mr Singh, I know your forte is defence issues, not finance. So pardon me if I digress a bit. As a meber of the JPC on Bofors, why was no attempt made to get to the truth? General Sundarji says no one on the JPC asked himn a single decent question!

Do you believe the fiscal deficit can be cut in your lifetime? What are the hurdles to achieving this goal?

What is the BJP's position on the opening up of the insurance sector? Do you believe that the insurance sector should be protected the way it has all these years?

Mr Singh, why are you shying away from the question on the Tatas-SIA issue? Why can't you be honest and let us know what the party's position is? If it is the same as Mr Mahajan, let us know why you are opposed to the Tata-SIA affair.

shh, lower volumes speak louder, Mr Sinha

Mr Singh: I am referring to Shiela Kushe's answer: Isn't it true that India with almost half the population illeterate does not need technology upgradation in every sector? It is only few middle class families who will benefit from technology whereas the casual labour in India will not benefit in any terms from technological upgradation? Please comment, how will you balance technology upgradation with illeterate population?

Mr Singh, so many queries, so few replies? Typical politician, sir?

Will the BJP demand that the tax net be increased and that "agriculture" also be brought into the tax net?

Mr Singh: If elections are held again? Are you confident that BJP will be able to get an absolute majority? They have no presence in my state Andhra?

Sinha and socialist: I am not shying away from answering. The answer about Tata-SIA project has to be examined against the government's policy on civil aviation. And as for exit policy, Mr socialist what is needed is a reform of labour laws in the country. Exit is an unhappy choice of words as if human beings were superflous. Without the safety net of unemployment protection or even a rudimentary welfare state no economic reform programme can add to the number of unemployment. It must redirect through re-education. i would have answered at greater length but for Shiela Kushe's appeal for short answers and also for the fact that the programme has completed one hour of its alloted time. Thank you all for joining me and for exchanging views.

Mr Singh: Is it true that you photocopied all the important files in breach of your oath of secrecy durin 13 days? AND WHAT DID YOU DO IN YOUR 13 DAYS AS FINANCE MINISTER?

SHAME! SHAME! MR SINGH! I DID NOT EXPECT YOU TO BE SO MEALY MOUTHED ABOUT THE TATA-SIA BUSINESS! NOW I KNOW WHAT YOUR PARTY FIGHTS FOR. NOT FOR ALL INDIANS, BUT BANIAS AND BRAHMINS. SHAME! SHAME!

Sinha and socialist: I am not shying away from answering. The answer about Tata-SIA project has to be examined against the government's policy on civil aviation. And as for exit policy, Mr socialist what is needed is a reform of labour laws in the country. Exit is an unhappy choice of words as if human beings were superflous. Without the safety net of unemployment protection or even a rudimentary welfare state no economic reform programme can add to the number of unemployment. It must redirect through re-education. i would have answered at greater length but for Shiela Kushe's appeal for short answers and also for the fact that the programme has completed one hour of its alloted time. Thank you all for joining me and for exchanging views.